• Effective immediately we will be deleting, without notice, any negative threads or posts that deal with the use of encryption and streaming of scanner audio.

    We've noticed a huge increase in rants and negative posts that revolve around agencies going to encryption due to the broadcasting of scanner audio on the internet. It's now worn out and continues to be the same recycled rants. These rants hijack the threads and derail the conversation. They no longer have a place anywhere on this forum other than in the designated threads in the Rants forum in the Tavern.

    If you violate these guidelines your post will be deleted without notice and an infraction will be issued. We are not against discussion of this issue. You just need to do it in the right place. For example:
    https://forums.radioreference.com/rants/224104-official-thread-live-audio-feeds-scanners-wait-encryption.html

Why the Forsyth County fire department has decided to encrypt its radios, and why that concerns First Amendment expert

mikewazowski

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Am I misreading something ?. How does a unication solve the encryption issue ?. This is the same old argument. You are living a pipe dream, if you think encryption is going to go away, or get reversed.
Yes, you misread it. For agencies that use paging, you can encrypt your paging and use a Unication pager since they support encryption.
 

mikewazowski

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IF you have the key. So for the hobbyist, a Unication pager does not solve the probelm of wanting to listen to encrypted comms.
Yes, of course but the original statement referred to an agency that uses pagers wanting to encrypt. Nobody said anything about hobbyists being able to listen to encryption with a Unication pager.
 

sc8

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Actually, HIPAA applies to ALL activities by "health care providers". That includes leaving names on a sign-in list which is publicly accessible, chatting about patients by name in the elevator, and, yes, IF YOU ARE A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER you also must take appropriate respect for patient privacy on radio communications.
If you are working for an NVOAD as a radio operator and a health care provider asks you to pass on a message--you can pass it on without issue. If it violates patient confidentiality, the PROVIDER is liable, the radop is not.
But as any emcom/auxcom radio training will tell you (ARRL ARES RACES SATERN Red Cross etc.) discretion at all times is advised. And that was the policy long before HIPAA. HIPAA was passed because the health care industries were incredibly sloppy and refused to do anything until they were slapped. Sometimes hard.
HIPAA is not the appropriate standard for radio traffic. All you have to do on a radio is say "The Green family has evacuated 1800 State Street, please tell their children to go to Aunt Jo's" and now you've done nothing wrong under HIPAA, but you have told burglars where they can clean out a house. There are very different liability issues for radio operators. All usually covered, formally, by any of the NVOADs.
This is incorrect please read the posted information from HHS Office of Civil Rights which specifically exempts radio traffic from HIPAA. And HIPAA applies to covered entities not any healthcare provider

I am getting a strong suspicion about why you are on this forum as this is twice you have posted incorrect legal information.
 

radio3353

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Am I misreading something ?. How does a unication solve the encryption issue ?. This is the same old argument. You are living a pipe dream, if you think encryption is going to go away, or get reversed.
What he means is that the Unication pagers can receive encrypted traffic with the key. In other words, they can be programmed with an encryption key.
 

DaveNF2G

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Except when insurance companies get involved, there is no liability for a third party who fails to prevent a criminal act by another. The burglar who gets target info as a secondary and unintended consequence of a radio transmission violates several laws. The person making the transmission is not responsible for that.
 

n0iop

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Without actually having a decryption key, that is never going to happen.
These systems aren't that secure. Most use short keys that make them susceptible to cryptoanalysis. The ones that don't are still susceptible to other attacks.

The problem is that even the use of weak ciphers that are easily broken makes monitoring unlawful.
 

K7MFC

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These systems aren't that secure. Most use short keys that make them susceptible to cryptoanalysis.
Can you cite an example of an ecrypted digital radio system that was "using short keys that make them susceptible to cryptoanalysis [sic]" actually being compromised?
 

hitechRadio

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"Richard T. Griffiths, president of the Georgia First Amendment Foundation, said there was “no argument” that some radio traffic needed to be encrypted and saw “no rational reason for fire or public health services to be encrypted.”

Sorry but, some of you (like this guy) think you have a right and it is you OPINION it violates your first amendment right. You can not sit in here and say, some encryption is OK but not all!!! It does not work that way it is either one or the other if in the context of the 1st.

"Why the Forsyth County fire department has decided to encrypt its radios, and why that concerns First Amendment expert"

It is Griffiths opinion that certain comms should NOT be encrypted.
EXPERT??????? He never even cited the 1st amendment, obviously because it does NOT apply to police comms!

Hmmmmm......."Griffiths – a retired journalist who worked for more than 25 years with CNN, including serving as vice president and senior editorial director for seven years before retiring – said he knew the importance of radios for news gathering from his time as an assignment editor."

Funny how there are many news agencies run encryption on there own comms, to keep other news agencies from picking up on there lead. I thought they are doing good for the community letting the community know of major events we should be aware of. Seems to me like in the media's case it is about ad revenue...I mean they are for profit business!!
I mean come on ,,have you ever been to one of the website and all the freaking ad pop up's...they are loosing there butts to social media!!!

I say encrypt it all!!!!
 

allend

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I say encrypt it all!!!![/QUOTE]

Be careful what you pray for. Joking but everything will be locked down eventually so no need to worry about radios and scanning anymore as those decades have passed and this is our new world we live in. Once everything is encrypted then lets see how this nation can operate between government and the people. Let newtons 3rd law figure it out. All of these actions will cause a reaction and the reaction will be disaster.

Mark my words
 

allend

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Bottom line is - Who's system is it? If the County owns it and want's to encrypt it, they have every legal right to do so.
Let me ask you the question, who really owns it if the people are employeed by the county and the county is funded by the tax payers? Think deeply about it.
 
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Tax dollars go to the State/County/City/etc. One could say "Well I own $127.52 worth of County equipment". No, it doesn't work that way. If the County sells off surplussed equipment, they don't give the citizen the money they made, it goes back into the treasury. Remember when you told the police officer, fire fighter, government employee "I pay your salary"?
 

hitechRadio

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Let me ask you the question, who really owns it if the people are employeed by the county and the county is funded by the tax payers? Think deeply about it.
I hear this excuse often, and it is a poor excuse.

By your logic,
Our taxes paid for the radio's, computers, vehicles..etc. etc.....we should get access to those, right???

It just does NOT work that way!!!!
 
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Exactly. We ALL pay President Donald Trump's salary. Does that mean we get to look at his computer? People really don't THINK. Instead of airing out complaints here, go hire an attorney who will sue the County to force them to un-encrypt their communications. Make sure YOU PAY the retainer to the attorney as well.
 

hitechRadio

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Be careful what you pray for. Joking but everything will be locked down eventually so no need to worry about radios and scanning anymore as those decades have passed and this is our new world we live in. Once everything is encrypted then lets see how this nation can operate between government and the people. Let newtons 3rd law figure it out. All of these actions will cause a reaction and the reaction will be disaster.

Mark my words
Some tin foil hat people here seem to believe that when the encryption switch is flipped all hell breaks loose on the radio, corruption. In reality, nothing really changes, except they give more detailed information to each other.

Do you really think any corrupt PS official will use the radio for there bad deeds???? They would use a cellphone for that.
 

kayn1n32008

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Can you cite an example of an ecrypted digital radio system that was "using short keys that make them susceptible to cryptoanalysis [sic]" actually being compromised?
Ignore him, just another clueless wonder that has zero understanding of how encryption works, and has no clue that you can use a ‘short’ key-variable with AES-256, Otherwise it would not be AES-256.

Using something other than AES-256 is foolish. DES/3DES and ARC4 are pitifully weak.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

allend

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Plus no system is using much of any DES-XL or DES-OFB anymore unless its an old system to where they are not using OTAR. Maybe some old Motorola legacy systems are still using this older encryption algo, but I can say pretty much at this point the majority of all the new system roll outs are all AES-256 since this is the standard these days and its FIPPS compliant.

Plus all of the new APX radios come with AES-256 built into the MACE now. No brainer. Plus nobody is breaking any kind of encryption anyways. Some people including myself can mouth breath sometimes and I can call my self out on it but with somebody thinking they can hack or figure out on how to break AES-256 is completely living on another planet which maybe its Pluto.
 
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