will a new digital scanner work in alaska new police and trooper digital system?

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stok573

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hello,

im new on radioreference but not new with scanners. i have moved to alaska view years ago and recently bought an older analog scanner the realistic pro 2005. i really like this scannerand paid 50$ for it but i have noticed i cannot hear the police or state troopers only ems and fire and other analog signals. my burning question is, if i purchase a digital scanner will i be able to listen to the state troopers, police, DOT and such departments that are digital now?

if i can listen to them again what or which scanner is recommended. i have been looking at the radioshack pro 106 cause this time i want a handheld so i have it on the go. these digital scanners are some what pricy but if it will work for the new digital systems police and troopers are using i am willing to pay somewhat more and then be goodagain forquite a few years.

thank you for reading my post
marc
 

kc8mvw

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Most, if not all, of the Troopers and other police channels are encrypted. There is not a home use scanner available that will be able to listen to those frequencies as the encryption chip is tied to their ALMR systems.

Depending on where you are at in the state, you'll likely get some EMS, Fire, DOT and military ranges. Otherwise everything will sound like gibberish. Sometimes you'll get lucky and hear a detective or two that isn't running encryption in the FNSB, but it's rare and one sided.

I personally bought a GRE PSR-500 a few years ago before they flipped the encrypt switch and it worked great. Now that the switch is flipped on their systems, my scanner stays at home on the shelf and only gets reprogrammed when I head outside to travel. Its an expensive paperweight in my opinion. I have debated selling it more than once.
 

stok573

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thank you for the fast reply,

though im still confused the new system that the troopers use is called p25 and when i look at the specs of the pro 106 or the gre500 both say that they have the p25 functionality and the new gre800 even has the p25 ii. whats that say then?

another thing i wonder about both scanner the pro106 and the gre500 have option to upgrade firmware. would this be an future feature that after upgrading the firmware once develped it might be possible to listen to the troopers? that would make the gre500 an useful paperweight :)

please correct me if im wrong.

about the feed stream online with a 10 min delay i have seriously got upset about it. its public safety in the first place and we have a right to know whats going plus the advantage of more witnesses but thats a whole other topic. i have listened to the delayed streams but feels like im listening to a recording and not right on the action.

thank you for reading my post,
marc
 

VE6BRW

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Yes they might be on or going to P25 but is it a Phase I, phase II or X2 system.... doesn't really matter because once the service (whatever it is) goes encrypted then like kc8 said there isn't a scanner built that will decode the conversations. along with that I'm not sure about in the USA but here in Canada under the Criminal Code of Canada and Industry Canada it is illegal to decrypt an encrypted signal. The only way to be able to hear them would be to submit a request to the agencies for approval to listen and monitor them... but I would venture to say that request would be denied so fast, and even if you did get it approved the cost to purchase a compatible transceiver would be quite high. Then you could not use for personnel or company use for any gain or prophet or divulge anything heard. me thinks that it is easier like mentioned to just utilize the web live audio monitoring if available. Recently in Edmonton they have been told to shutdown the feed for Edmonton Fire Service referencing a possible breach in FOIP issues.
 

kc8mvw

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thank you for the fast reply,

though im still confused the new system that the troopers use is called p25 and when i look at the specs of the pro 106 or the gre500 both say that they have the p25 functionality and the new gre800 even has the p25 ii. whats that say then?

another thing i wonder about both scanner the pro106 and the gre500 have option to upgrade firmware. would this be an future feature that after upgrading the firmware once develped it might be possible to listen to the troopers? that would make the gre500 an useful paperweight :)

please correct me if im wrong.
The scanners you listed can utilize the P25 system in non-encrypted mode, which is great for the DOT, military ranges, some airports and most fire departments that use the system within AK in non-encrypted modes. It is also nice should you get to an area where the public safety is not encrypted, then you can enjoy the scanner to it's full usefulness. P25 I and P25 II is nothing more than the mathematical shift algorithm that is utilized between the singular input and 3 (or more) outputs. The scanner can determine what the output is based on the algorithm and automatically switch to the correct output frequency when it senses activity on the channel.

Once the encryption is turned on, if the receiving radio / scanner is not registered as being authorized in the system (by those with the power to authorize it), you will hear nothing but gibberish / static. All standard digital scanners do not have the proper physical encryption chip installed to make them work, nor is one going to be available to the general user. It is not a firmware upgrade that makes this feature available, it's a hardware upgrade.

Now let's consider the encryption chips themselves. The last time I looked, the chips were selling for approximately $2500 a piece; and that doesn't include the paperwork requirements to purchase or get authorized for a particular system. I believe that the purchase order had to be on official letterhead from a public safety organization as well (but it's been years since I looked). The price may have come down some, but I doubt it as they are highly specialized. So for the general user, this is not going to happen any time soon.

At one time I had some ALMR radios that had the encryption chip in them that was authorized on the trooper system (while in Search & Rescue) and Dispatch could tell I was listening to their channel as the radio registers when it is active on the encrypted frequency. Needless to say, they made a verbal request that the radio be switched to a different frequency upon discovery it was there and wasn't part of an active search response call out.

So the government knows best and feels that they need additional help from those that might be willing to assist. But it goes both ways, if a crook has one of the digital scanners and can hear that police are headed in their direction, they can high tail it outta there and potentially avoid capture. By going to encrypted signals, anyone except the officers themselves will know where one another is and where they are headed. So it is safer for them to have the encryption on should someone wish harm to those that are sworn to protect & serve.

At this time, I think we best be glad that they are willing to share the feed, even if delayed so should something be happening locally, we can assist in minor ways (if at all). It doesn't help us commuters for road conditions / traffic accidents, but we'll find out what's going on eventually.
 

kikito

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So the government knows best and feels that they need additional help from those that might be willing to assist. But it goes both ways, if a crook has one of the digital scanners and can hear that police are headed in their direction, they can high tail it outta there and potentially avoid capture.
I know what you're saying, it's been said many times before and it's also their mantra/excuse to justify encryption. However, to play "devil's advocate", what happened with the 80+ years before digital modulation and encryption when it was easier and cheaper to tune in the simple few analog channels to listen to most things out there? How come just NOW is something of concern that such a minute amount of citizens and/or crooks might be listening.

These are mostly rhetorical questions because I know what the answers are going to be, especially from the powers that be. Still unacceptable excuses in my opinion.

Just like is my strong opinion that government DOES NOT knows best....


To paraphrase and mangle up an old saying: Too much power corrupts, absolute power, absolutely can't be trusted....
 

N8IAA

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Fortunately, GA
thank you for the fast reply,

though im still confused the new system that the troopers use is called p25 and when i look at the specs of the pro 106 or the gre500 both say that they have the p25 functionality and the new gre800 even has the p25 ii. whats that say then?
Having P-25 Phase I, or Phase II decoding has nothing to do with encryption.

another thing i wonder about both scanner the pro106 and the gre500 have option to upgrade firmware. would this be an future feature that after upgrading the firmware once develped it might be possible to listen to the troopers? that would make the gre500 an useful paperweight :)
No scanner can be firmware upgraded to listen to encryption. Period. It is against the law.

please correct me if im wrong.

about the feed stream online with a 10 min delay i have seriously got upset about it. its public safety in the first place and we have a right to know whats going plus the advantage of more witnesses but thats a whole other topic. i have listened to the delayed streams but feels like im listening to a recording and not right on the action.

thank you for reading my post,
marc
Marc, the hardest thing to understand about digital scanning when using older analog scanners, is how it works:) When my county, and the counties around me, changed to digital, it was a completely new technology. Been listening for 11 years.
Am I happy about encryption? Absolutely not. Am I happy that the counties that were conventional analog going to MotoTrbo/NXDN. Absolutely not.
But, if you look at the database for your county and city under the ALMR system, you should be able to tell whether or not you can listen to state, county, and local frequencies if they show a 'D' in the column next to the TGID. An 'E' means encrypted. No joy.
It truly is a PITA.
Larry
 

stok573

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hello again,

we all have our opinions about the encrypted system, a crook is not going to sit and wait for the cops to show up while listening to a scanner and taking his time and try to sneak away right before, they will do it anyway with or without a scanner and be as fast as they could be. to catch one in the act seems to me such a small disadvantage and a lots of money spend while a cop has to be alert and on his toes at all time and not depend on a system thinking noone else knows about the situation hes going to run into. the advantage of public knowing what is going on around their neightboorhood seems greater to me publicwise for example car accidents ahead, first responders on their way and perhaps even knowing some lunatic running around shooting people.. i could probably come up with tons of other examples.

anyways.. i went and got me a RS pro 106 yesterday knowing already i wont be able to listen in to the troopers thanks to the reply's on this post i wasnt too disappointed with the headsup. still i spend 329$ on a scanner that i thought the price wasnt too bad untill radioshack told me it doesnt come with a battery pack or even a adapter or a simple usb cord. thats 75$ not included and asking for protection case thats something for next christmas :)

still im a happy scanner listener and i love the technology its a great scanner with lots of features sitting right next to my 20+ year old realistic pro 2005 listening to all the same frequencies wondering what happend to the continious range from 25 to 1300 with only 1 gap.

thank you for reading my post,
marc
 

stok573

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kc8mvw,

thanks for that info btw about the chip :) sooner or later someone somewhere will figure something out that will work its always been like that, whats coded can be decoded.
 

kikito

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Militarized Police: The Standing Army the Founders Warned About


Keeping in mind that even in Alaska not a week goes by, that they mobilize a whole "civilian army" of cops in armored vehicles just for ONE person supposedly barricaded in their own house, many times all they're armed with is just a knife or a handgun.

I know and it's obvious that special law enforcements teams and/or SWAT has been around for decades. But what we have now has definitely blurred the lines between a "beefed up" civilian force and borderline pseudo-military.

Anybody seen APD, Troopers, FBI, etc. lately in their tactical gear from a distance? Can't even tell if they're real military or civilian. Think about that....
 

R8000

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Can we please stay on topic of radios and scanners and not drift off to "police state" type of discussion ?
 

mm

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after kc8mvw and his description and what with him royally butchering encryption, trunking and everything else in his post I want to leave RR forever and go live in p25.ca land never to again venture to RR.
 

kayn1n32008

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Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (BlackBerry; U; BlackBerry 9900; en-US) AppleWebKit/534.11+ (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/7.1.0.1047 Mobile Safari/534.11+)

mm said:
after kc8mvw and his description and what with him royally butchering encryption, trunking and everything else in his post I want to leave RR forever and go live in p25.ca land never to again venture to RR.
His second reply was one big long HUH?????????????
 
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