Will current scanners on the market support APCO 25 Phase II?

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willtorres918

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Sorry if this question has already been answerd, but I've been through a million threads and posts trying to figure out a few basic questions. While I did learn a bit about it, I still didn't find an answer. Will any of the latest scanners on the market today be capable of receiving or decoding the Project 25 phase II signals whether they be digital or analog? I already know encryption is out of the equation. Are they capable of having a firmware update to allow this, or will I have to buy a new scanner later on down the road to listen to them? Or, will there ever be a scanner capable of receiving this technology?

I am looking into buying the GRE PSR-500 and would like to know if I should hold off for a while. Most of my county is conventional analog on VHF and UHF anyways, but I am trying to listen to neighboring counties which are currently using phase 1. And I would also like to be prepared if my city or county jumps on one of these systems. Please be gentle I'm fairly new to all this. I currently have an RS Pro-97 and it works great but slowly some of the other cities are becoming digital which is why I'm looking into buying a new scanner. If there is a specific radio anyone can recommend other than the GRE that would be helpful too. I like the Pro-97 as it was made by GRE but find the $50 price difference between the PSR-500 and the Pro-106 quite attractive ;-)
 

ibagli

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I think there's a system in Virginia that just recently went online with some use of Phase 2.
 

willtorres918

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Thanks for the replies guys. Maybe I should narrow down the question. While I understand that Phase 2 is still in the works and nobody's using it yet, I was wondering if the top trunking digital scanners on the market will be capable of supporting phase 2 or TDMA in the near or distant FUTURE via firmware update. Maybe some of you guys in the know would have this information. How about it N_Jay you seem to know alot.
 

ibagli

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GRE has said that it is not possible to update their current object-oriented scanners (PSR-500/600, Pro 106-197) to support Phase 2. I believe it's also a matter of having additional hardware that supports, in addition to other things, the different vocoder.
 

newsphotog

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Doesn't P25 Phase II and D-STAR use the AMBE vocoder? Would this make it possible to listen to Phase 2 on D-STAR enabled radios, or is there more to it than that?
 
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N_Jay

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I think there's a system in Virginia that just recently went online with some use of Phase 2.
To paraphrase Marty Freedman (Young Frankenstein) "You thought wrong!" (In my best Igor voice) (That is "I"gor, not "E"gor)

;);)
 
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N_Jay

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Doesn't P25 Phase II and D-STAR use the AMBE vocoder? Would this make it possible to listen to Phase 2 on D-STAR enabled radios, or is there more to it than that?
There is much more to it than that.

The vocoder is only one part of the protocol.

The three major portions are the vocoding (How the voice is turned into bits), the channel coding (How the bits are stacked up, including any error correction), and the modulation (How the bits are put on the radio channel).

All three must be correct for a receiver to work.
 
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N_Jay

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Right, trying to keep the answer simple to avoid a wave of arguments.
Yes, but sometimes too simple leaves out important details.

Don't worry, some here like to argue when you leave them out, while others argue when you put them in. ;) ;)
 

eorange

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Of course nothing is transmitting P25 Phase 2 yet either.
So regarding this article, specifically the 2nd to the last paragraph:

As Cleveland weighs bids for new radio system, one bidder offers lower cost, but reduces scope | Metro - cleveland.com - cleveland.com

And assuming this article is factual...it looks like Harris is offering Phase II in their bid. What could that mean? Would Cleveland be the first ever Phase II installation, or could that mean "but not for years to come"? Just looking for some insight.
 
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N_Jay

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So regarding this article, specifically the 2nd to the last paragraph:

As Cleveland weighs bids for new radio system, one bidder offers lower cost, but reduces scope | Metro - cleveland.com - cleveland.com

And assuming this article is factual...it looks like Harris is offering Phase II in their bid. What could that mean? Would Cleveland be the first ever Phase II installation, or could that mean "but not for years to come"? Just looking for some insight.
Bid and built are two different things.

I would expect the fist true Phase 2 systems to start in 2011 to 2012, but I could be wrong.
 

rmiller818

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It is not a true Phase II system yet as the standard for P25 Phase II is not finalt. As N Jay mentioned before, what is out there now is a proprietary Motorola format and is NOT Phase II.

See, this is what I wanted to avoid, a simple "There is no such scanner on the market" and then close the thread would have solved it.

Now someone is going to come on and say "But Loudoun County is Phase II!"
 
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