Will scanners/scanning keep upgrading or die off in 5 years

[TPC2075]

Scanners/Scanner will be around for many years.

Hello Again !

I do understand you really i do ! my mind does get foggy or is it froggy hummm not sure much these days

one kind of gets this way after going through surgery to remove tumor out of ones head !

and your right scanners might end "But" good luck with enforcing that new law if that kind of law passes !

next new law will be to charge and or collect cash for every breath you take to stay alive that does not sound

possible "but" that is already happening in the Hospitals all around us here in these United States.

TPC2075
RAS

 

[coolderb]

ten13, have you tried several of the njics sites such as union county simulcast, west orange simulcast, east rutherford, alpine, and what was the signal strength? if your getting several bars of signal strength its likely simulcast distortion from lsm, which can be improved with a yagi and turning up the squelch or using the attenuator. if its not simulcast distortion you'll be able to receive those distant signals better with a yagi

even if law enforcement encrypted all their radios, there is still more to listen to than you would ever have time for, fireground channels, patient reports on northstar and southstar in nj, air traffic control, fast food drive thrus, business band, utilities, wireless microphones, sports stadium ops, satellites,

also, thanks for the laughs guys, it always amuses me when someone says decoding encryption is illegal, like you have your finger on the keyboard to a supercomputer. not going to brute force the encryption key for aes encryption, but sometimes radios lose the key

I hear you! Some of the most entertaining stuff I hear on my scanners is from stores and restaurants at local shopping malls and mall security I didn't realize there was such a shoplifting epidemic. Lol

 

[N9NRA]

I hear you! Some of the most entertaining stuff I hear on my scanners is from stores and restaurants at local shopping malls and mall security I didn't realize there was such a shoplifting epidemic. Lol

And it gets even better when ya have a few folks using FRS radios too, i hear a ton of `em when i`m up north christmas shopping with my mom, we`ll go get lunch at a groovy buffet place and i`ll turn the scanner on while she gets her food and listen to the chatter, sometimes it`s boring, a goodly bit of the time it`s downright funny . Or we`ll be leaving to head home and i`ll listen on the run back to the house, still more random chatter to listen to. N9NRA

 

[coolderb]

I remember some 30-years-ago when trunked radio systems and MDTs were supposedly going to kill scanning.

The only real threat is when people stop being curious. When people stop being curious they stop experimenting. When people stop experimenting, the hobby stops advancing.

Never stop being curious. Never stop experimenting.

Amen! The argument by Public Safety folks that encryption is needed all the time to prevent criminals from eavesdropping on the law enforcement (LE) makes an assumption that there are more criminals than law abiding folks. That 'Us vs. Them', bunker mentality is really off base. Scanner hobbyist are great assets to LE. When there is a suspect at large, BOLO, missing person, etc. it helps to have as many eyes and ears as possible. Police can't be everywhere, esp. in this day and age of budget cuts, staff reductions, etc.

Just today I received a text alert from a local police department seeking the public's assistance in identifying 2 suspects from a robbery last week. Scanner listeners would have been able to assist them in a much more timely manner. You can't have it both ways.

 

[pepsima1]

Amen! The argument by Public Safety folks that encryption is needed all the time to prevent criminals from eavesdropping on the law enforcement (LE) makes an assumption that there are more criminals than law abiding folks. That 'Us vs. Them', bunker mentality is really off base. Scanner hobbyist are great assets to LE. When there is a suspect at large, BOLO, missing person, etc. it helps to have as many eyes and ears as possible. Police can't be everywhere, esp. in this day and age of budget cuts, staff reductions, etc.

Just today I received a text alert from a local police department seeking the public's assistance in identifying 2 suspects from a robbery last week. Scanner listeners would have been able to assist them in a much more timely manner. You can't have it both ways.

Hopefully you told that LE agency to go put a sock in it. Make them a deal. You open your radios in the clear for us or do your business and investigation yourselves.

I think its fair.

 

[SCPD]

I agree with pepsima1's statement.

 

[Voyager]

Hopefully you told that LE agency to go put a sock in it. Make them a deal. You open your radios in the clear for us or do your business and investigation yourselves.

I think its fair.

It's all about control. They want to control what the public knows.

 

[balibago]

I'm losing it

I just like the feel of a portable scanner in my hands. Even if I can't hear a thing.

 

[rrbum]

To answer the original poster's question, I see the "scanner" market, as we know it, to be short-lived. There will soon just not be enough left to monitor to warrant research and development of anything new. Anything left to monitor can be heard with existing technology.

Now, to address the reality of encryption/proprietary systems. Other than the closed community of skilled hackers, whom I believe will overcome and monitor encrypted systems, I see only one viable solution.
This would require the co-operation of local legislators and would most likely be cost prohibitive for many of us hobbyists.
I suggest the availability of some sort of "permit" as well as pre-programed radios being made available to those who can qualify.

Picture this:
"Mr. X" lives in a town where a citizen can apply for a permit to possess by either buying or renting a radio which is capable of monitoring the local police department (excluding obvious groups/channels which should be encrypted).
Mr. X is able to prove he is an upstanding citizen. He is not a felon and actually volunteers with the neighborhood townwatch. He has the means to afford an outright purchase of a radio capable of listening to the local PD. He has signed a statement that he will not break any of the rules including streaming or sharing any information he hears. He will be on record as one of the citizen holders of said radio. He knows his permit can be revoked and radio disabled for any infraction of rules. Mr.X now can enjoy the privilege of being able to monitor the local system.
I realize this seems far fetched, but it may be the only solution.

 

[Voyager]

Picture this:
"Mr. X" lives in a town where a citizen can apply for a permit to possess by either buying or renting a radio which is capable of monitoring the local police department (excluding obvious groups/channels which should be encrypted).
Mr. X is able to prove he is an upstanding citizen. He is not a felon and actually volunteers with the neighborhood townwatch. He has the means to afford an outright purchase of a radio capable of listening to the local PD. He has signed a statement that he will not break any of the rules including streaming or sharing any information he hears. He will be on record as one of the citizen holders of said radio. He knows his permit can be revoked and radio disabled for any infraction of rules. Mr.X now can enjoy the privilege of being able to monitor the local system.
I realize this seems far fetched, but it may be the only solution.

Picture this: A county who refuses to put PD dispatch channels in Fire Department radios (receive only) so they can hear what is going on. Now, do you really think they are going to allow any citizen to monitor anything?

 

[cherubim]

Given that a lot of scanner users work for public safety and at least some of those in the decision making process of such departments see the value of unencrypted comms then yes - there is still life left in the scanner market.

I would hate to have a situation where the only thing a user could monitor is airband, marine, cb/ham and the local janitor. That's pretty much the case with the UK and their stupid laws.

 

[f2shooter]

I find it sort of amusing that many here feel we have no 'right' to listen in on communications from public service sources and that those sources may encrypt for whatever reasons, while amateur ie. ham radio operators are expressly forbidden from communicating any way except out in the open. No encryption, no codes, no catch phrase, nothing except saying what you mean. Call it intellectually dishonest or just ask yourself if they really think we are all that stupid. I think it's both. In any case there is quite a lot of open traffic that require at least 120 different frequencies to be programmed on any analog scanner I own. Public safety, ham, aircraft, FRS/GMRS and all of these services appear to be active. I expect that to be the case for some time.

Otis

 

[kd5wzr]

I find it sort of amusing that many here feel we have no 'right' to listen in on communications from public service sources and that those sources may encrypt for whatever reasons, while amateur ie. ham radio operators are expressly forbidden from communicating any way except out in the open. No encryption, no codes, no catch phrase, nothing except saying what you mean. Call it intellectually dishonest or just ask yourself if they really think we are all that stupid. I think it's both.

What's intellectually dishonest about that? Public safety can and does encrypt, and amateur radio cannot. Are you privy to some collection of secret information that suggests the opposite? If so, please share and cite specific sources.

 

[chekoz77]

What's intellectually dishonest about that? Public safety can and does encrypt, and amateur radio cannot. Are you privy to some collection of secret information that suggests the opposite? If so, please share and cite specific sources.

Well without getting into a huge discussion its like this.

Police are public servants. All info is supposed to be public record. There are reasons for that.

We are getting too paranoid in America and are constantly stripping rights in the name of "safety". Thats not my idea of freedom. Maybe others see it different.

Our scanning hobby will probably be deemed illegal in a few years. And I am sure it will make the world a safer place.[emoji52]

 

[kd5wzr]

Well without getting into a huge discussion its like this.

Police are public servants. All info is supposed to be public record. There are reasons for that.

We are getting too paranoid in America and are constantly stripping rights in the name of "safety". Thats not my idea of freedom. Maybe others see it different.

Our scanning hobby will probably be deemed illegal in a few years. And I am sure it will make the world a safer place.[emoji52]

It's not intellectually dishonest to state the plainly obvious facts. f2shooter suggests for some reason that other posters who are providing objective information about the reality of our ability to access public agency comms are somehow being deceitful. That's just nonsense.

 

[jonwienke]

What bothers me is the dichotomy between what the common folk are allowed to do vs agents of the government. It's OK for the government to encrypt comms in the name of public safety, but I am not allowed to do so, even if I have something personal and private I need to discuss with a family member, attorney, etc.

 

[coolderb]

Hopefully you told that LE agency to go put a sock in it. Make them a deal. You open your radios in the clear for us or do your business and investigation yourselves.

I think its fair.

Yep, that would be a very fair deal

In 2005 I began a job working as an IT Director for a housing authority. One of my duties was to upgrade the security cameras at all of the sites and integrate them into the data networks. When I first met with the Security Director at the security operations I noticed an old analog scanner on one of the desks. He told me that the security guards used to be able to listen to the police activity and have a heads up on problems happening at their sites. I learned that the city had switched to a new digital system (P.25) a few years earlier and they were no longer able to listen in. One of the key selling points that the vendor had pitched to the city officials was that there were no commercially available scanners that could listen to their communications. At the time that was true, but a short while later Uniden and later GRE/Radio Shack released digital-capable scanners. The first thing I did was put in a requisition for a digital scanner for the security department. I programmed it and delivered it to the security operations center. The security director was pleased. The police officers who frequented the office to view the surveillance cameras were a little surprised at first. They would often reach for their volume knobs on their radios as the scanner played in the background But they soon realized what an asset it was because our security guards were able to proactively pan and focus cameras on areas in response to calls heard over the scanner. Prior to that they had know idea of major crimes and other activity until well after the fact. I left that job in 2010 but visit them from time to time. That same scanner (Pro-96) is still in service providing a critical link between the city police and housing authority.

 

[zz0468]

It's OK for the government to encrypt comms in the name of public safety, but I am not allowed to do so, even if I have something personal and private I need to discuss with a family member, attorney, etc.

You're quite allowed to encrypt your communications, you're just not allowed to do it via amateur radio.

 

[jonwienke]

You're quite allowed to encrypt your communications, you're just not allowed to do it via amateur radio.

And given the context of my comment was amateur radio, what's your point? If I can encrypt a Wi-Fi connection (which can go several miles with directional antennas, and can be set up with no licensing or registration whatsoever) without endangering national security or empowering organized crime, terrorists, or other boogeymen, what rational justification is there for forbidding encryption in the ham bands?

 

[f2shooter]

I'm not saying ANYONE here is being deceitful at all. I believe it is dishonest to allow public servants to encrypt their comms while expresseley forbidding it to regular citizens using the same method of communicating, in this case radio or amateur radio specifically. And it is this kind of thing that will give us less to listen to in this hobby.

Otis