Waterloo Region Public Safety - Simplex

[rkillins]

I'm noticing the RR database still lists some simplex frequencies for WRPS and Kitchener Fire. Maybe used in their EDACS days (although I never captured any use), but now that they are on the P25 system, do you think they still would have use for simplex operations? I know nothing about radio hardware, but could they use their radios outside the system in any sort of simplex mode?

 

[ve3tej]

If the system goes down, the radio will revert to a simplex channel.

 

[rkillins]

Thank you VE3TEJ. These frequencies would be different than the system frequencies? Isn't simplex low power line of sight type stuff? Should the system fail, and the radio switch to simplex, can they still communicate region wide?

 

[gary123]

Coverage would only be what the simplex range is for radio-radio. If the system goes down the whole county would be on the channel so technically any radio could talk to any radio if they are in range of each other.

 

[mikewazowski]

I'm noticing the RR database still lists some simplex frequencies for WRPS and Kitchener Fire. Maybe used in their EDACS days (although I never captured any use), but now that they are on the P25 system, do you think they still would have use for simplex operations? I know nothing about radio hardware, but could they use their radios outside the system in any sort of simplex mode?

More than likely the channels are used for fireground, surveillance or tactical operations. You would have to be decently close in order to hear anything. I would guess any police simplex channels would be encrypted.

If a single site fails, users would just roam onto other sites. Since Waterloo is a simulcast system, the users would probably not even notice except coverage might be affected in the area around the site. If the controller fails, the system goes into failsoft mode and each frequency becomes a standalone repeater. Users are assigned a repeater so they still have coverage. The only time they would revert to simplex mode would be if every site failed which would be a rare occurrence.

 

[rkillins]

Thank you all for sharing your knowledge. I don't know if these frequencies are accurate anymore. The Fire Department have fireground frequencies and DVRS, and the Police encrypted Tactical and Surveillance talkgroups, I feel they would favour over conventional simplex.
If a site/system fail occurs, and they use system frequencies become essentially repeaters, would there be any relevance to these simplex frequencies? If the simplex frequncies are being used in any capacity, would they be selectable in their radios? Encrypted?

 

[gary123]

Almost 100% on LE being encrypted. If they are in use you may have to be close to the scene to hear any activity especially if they are being used for DVRS..

 

[rkillins]

I wasn't sure if that would be the case gary123, thanks for confirming. I could see if the simplex frequencies were part of the system, but since they aren't I wasn't sure. I guess transmissions on non system frequencies can be encrypted equally, it's the transmissions that are encrypted, not the frequency itself. A radio capable of encryption would encrypt any transmission, regardless.

 

[gary123]

Actually its the TG that is encrypted. This can be done on a TG by TG basis. IE TG 1000 can be using KID 1234 and TG 1001 can be using KID 9876. The best tool for tracking these TG/KID combinations is DSDplus with a cheap ($40) SDR. There are other programs that do it too.

If the frequency is used by a DVRS then the TG on the main radio is what is repeated through the DVRS. If its encrypted then the DVRS will be encrypted. If not then the DVRS will not be either. FYI this is a basic description of the process we all know its a lot more complex than that in actuality, something to do with radio and DVRS codeplugs etc.

 

[exkalibur]

Actually its the TG that is encrypted. This can be done on a TG by TG basis. IE TG 1000 can be using KID 1234 and TG 1001 can be using KID 9876. The best tool for tracking these TG/KID combinations is DSDplus with a cheap ($40) SDR. There are other programs that do it too.

If the frequency is used by a DVRS then the TG on the main radio is what is repeated through the DVRS. If its encrypted then the DVRS will be encrypted. If not then the DVRS will not be either. FYI this is a basic description of the process we all know its a lot more complex than that in actuality, something to do with radio and DVRS codeplugs etc.

When operating in DVRS mode, the mobile radio is essentially just acting as a pipe. The encryption/decryption happens on the portable, the portable's RID is transmitted on the system, etc...

 

[rkillins]

Thank all. Solid information, but wow ... monitoring still has become complicated with new radio efficiency. I guess then that programming the simplex frequencies still listed in RR for Waterloo Region (likely left over from the EDACS era) is just wasted space. If in range to actually hear them they are in all likelihood encrypted. Unless the PD are at my door or across the street using them (for whatever reason they would use them when they can just as easily and effectively use their system) I will never know if they use these or any other simplex frequencies.