Wylie Texas FD Ops 6

dmurman

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Listening to Wylie Texas PD/FD today and they had a building fire and had FD use Ops 6? What talkgroup is Ops 6? I hear their talk on my phone running action scanner but not on my scanner.
 

N1GAW

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Listening to Wylie Texas PD/FD today and they had a building fire and had FD use Ops 6? What talkgroup is Ops 6? I hear their talk on my phone running action scanner but not on my scanner.
This is not a general scanning type question, you should click on REPORT (lower left corner) and ask for it to be moved to the Texas forum to get better responses.
 

FishScan

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They were running training exercises this morning. I dont recall what TGID they were on.
 

mwjones

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You just happened to be in luck, I had a "discover" session running on unidentified talkgroups on the PAWM Simulcast site today, and captured some of their traffic. Ops 6 is Talkgroup 839.

Adding it to the other talkgroups I've identified for an update to the RRDB in the next few days.
 

dmurman

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You just happened to be in luck, I had a "discover" session running on unidentified talkgroups on the PAWM Simulcast site today, and captured some of their traffic. Ops 6 is Talkgroup 839.

Adding it to the other talkgroups I've identified for an update to the RRDB in the next few days.
Thanks, will add that to my trunking file for Wylie.
 

Russell

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Since PAWM talk groups are assigned in blocks and identified Wylie Fire TGs have been identified in the 826 thru 839 range, you could assume that the unidentified TGs within that range are also Wylie Fire/EMS. It'd be a safe bet that 830, 832 and 833 are also used by Wylie FD in some capacity. Add them to your scanning to attempt to identify their use.
 

mwjones

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Since PAWM talk groups are assigned in blocks and identified Wylie Fire TGs have been identified in the 826 thru 839 range, you could assume that the unidentified TGs within that range are also Wylie Fire/EMS. It'd be a safe bet that 830, 832 and 833 are also used by Wylie FD in some capacity. Add them to your scanning to attempt to identify their use.
That theory might be out the window, especially with Collin County joining. I've ID'd 150 (which is not Plano Fire) and am trying validate findings on 210 (which maybe Plano/Allen Fire if I can get additional recordings to validate), and neither are what group you'd think they'd be in. I've got to finish going through the recordings from the last few days on the PAWM site to finish some others as well.

On the Collin County Simulcast site, I'm seeing the County radio techs using 1168 (but I'm not ready to declare that it is the end use until the system starts going live), and seeing a number of talkgroups in the upper 1100's and lower 1200's that are being tested (I heard Farmersville Fire mentioned on a couple of them). I'd have to scour the SDRTrunk logs to see if there's any Encrypted groups key up and try to tie to a general range they're in (I may do that this weekend).

As I find unidentified stuff, I'm trying to document it with notes in the Wiki - Plano, Allen, Wylie, Murphy (PAWM) Unknown Talkgroups - The RadioReference Wiki (I do this for most of the systems I monitor) which you are more than welcome to contribute to if interested.
 

Russell

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I get the big blocks, especially moving forward. Originally they were assigned in blocks of 100 with a few exceptions. As PAWM progressed the assigned blocks got smaller, especailly where blocks of 100 didn't make sense (The Colony, Collin College,etc.). I'm talking about the onesies and twosies that are directly in between TGs as pointed out above. It'll be real interesting to see how this pans out. I'm also very interested in where the InterOp TGs are going to be assigned. I can see them backfilling the 50s, 150s, 250s, etc. as there is a lot of wasted space. The 150s to the low 200 could be an Fire InterOp area, as well. Like I said, just a WAG.

Russell
 

mwjones

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I get the big blocks, especially moving forward. Originally they were assigned in blocks of 100 with a few exceptions. As PAWM progressed the assigned blocks got smaller, especailly where blocks of 100 didn't make sense (The Colony, Collin College,etc.). I'm talking about the onesies and twosies that are directly in between TGs as pointed out above. It'll be real interesting to see how this pans out. I'm also very interested in where the InterOp TGs are going to be assigned. I can see them backfilling the 50s, 150s, 250s, etc. as there is a lot of wasted space. The 150s to the low 200 could be an Fire InterOp area, as well. Like I said, just a WAG.

Russell
Could be anybody's guess at this point. If you look at the NCTCOG system, the interop groups are in the 60000 range, while the City of Dallas is in the 6000 range. I honestly figured by this point the NCTCOG would have been more of a regional system, with the agencies consolidating on one region-wide system, much like StarNET (the precursor to TxWARN) did in Houston/Galveston, or the MARRS system in Kansas City. We are seeing some consolidation with City of Denton and City of Lewisville joining Denton County, the Fort Worth Regional system and now Collin County joining PAWM, but its still separate systems... And then there's Dallas with PD and Fire still on Analog (I guess if it ain't broke don't fix it).

I am going to continue to run logging and recording on the Collin County site, with the hope that the radio techs will cycle through each talkgroup and announce what the users are (I've captured this on other radio systems when they're getting ready to go live - usually to make sure the dispatch consoles are labeled properly vs. the radios, etc). With the exception of the encrypted groups, this should give us a pretty good starting point if it happens.
 

hiegtx

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Could be anybody's guess at this point. If you look at the NCTCOG system, the interop groups are in the 60000 range, while the City of Dallas is in the 6000 range. I honestly figured by this point the NCTCOG would have been more of a regional system, with the agencies consolidating on one region-wide system, much like StarNET (the precursor to TxWARN) did in Houston/Galveston, or the MARRS system in Kansas City. We are seeing some consolidation with City of Denton and City of Lewisville joining Denton County, the Fort Worth Regional system and now Collin County joining PAWM, but its still separate systems... And then there's Dallas with PD and Fire still on Analog (I guess if it ain't broke don't fix it).

I am going to continue to run logging and recording on the Collin County site, with the hope that the radio techs will cycle through each talkgroup and announce what the users are (I've captured this on other radio systems when they're getting ready to go live - usually to make sure the dispatch consoles are labeled properly vs. the radios, etc). With the exception of the encrypted groups, this should give us a pretty good starting point if it happens.
Originally, before the repercussions from Covid & the drop in revenue (largely sale tax) for Dallas (city), the city & county were in the process of constructing a new P25 system, to be used by both the city & county. That was supposed to go live this fall. While I have not seen anything specific, I suspect that you can add one, if not two years, to that timeline. The city also still has damage from last October's tornado, which had already put a hole in the budget. Plus, for the next budget year, property values on the damaged area will be lower, also reducing revenue.

When the subject of the new system first came up a couple of years ago, speculation was that some of the smaller cities might also join. But since then, the Park Cities have announced plans to switch to GMRS, building several simulcast sites for their use. Seagoville is moving to GMRS as well. A few of Seagoville TGIDs are active now on GMRS, and Seagoville is supposed to be building a new site for their use.

Of the remaining cities that are not already on a trunked system (nor in the process of moving to one), such as Balch Springs, Hutchins, & Wilmer, whether any of those three will move is unknown. I suspect, if Balch Springs moves to a system, from their current 800MHz conventional, that they would join GMRS, since they are so intertwined with other GMRS cities, such as Mesquite & now Seagoville.

I doubt that the so-caled "Best Southwest" cities will change. Three of them (Cedar Hill, Desoto, & Duncanville) are on their own NXDN system, and they likely would want to control their own system, rather than joining one controlled by someone else.The fourth city, Lancaster, has their own NXDN system. They also might prefer to control their own destiny.
 

Motoballa

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Of the remaining cities that are not already on a trunked system (nor in the process of moving to one), such as Balch Springs, Hutchins, & Wilmer, whether any of those three will move is unknown. I suspect, if Balch Springs moves to a system, from their current 800MHz conventional, that they would join GMRS, since they are so intertwined with other GMRS cities, such as Mesquite & now Seagoville.
To my understanding (atleast for Balch Springs) is they plan on staying on their current 800MHz system. They've actually added an additional repeater (or two?) for Public Works and I overheard the other being a multi-use channel since they're doing work on their EOC and I guess that's apart of a disaster plan. I've been hesitant to submit an update until I can confirm they are using them as such.

I know they have the GMRS system programmed in their portables and have heard them use it before, although last time I checked their mobiles lacked any bit of GMRS being in it.

I'd be great to have most agencies on the same system but not everyone can play nice in the sandbox, which I understand.
 

mwjones

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Originally, before the repercussions from Covid & the drop in revenue (largely sale tax) for Dallas (city), the city & county were in the process of constructing a new P25 system, to be used by both the city & county. That was supposed to go live this fall. While I have not seen anything specific, I suspect that you can add one, if not two years, to that timeline. The city also still has damage from last October's tornado, which had already put a hole in the budget. Plus, for the next budget year, property values on the damaged area will be lower, also reducing revenue.
So, this set me off into "research" mode of open/public records, and I was able to find some information. The $48 Million project was approved and the purchase order submitted for the installation and 15 years of maintenance was sent to Motorola in December 2017/January 2018 (it was approved by City Council approved it mid-December, so its just a matter of how long it took finance to issue the order). The City Council also accepted a $10 Million reimbursement from the County for access to the system (no other agencies mentioned participating in the cost sharing agreement).

Then in June this year, the City Council approved another $6.4 Million to Motorola "for radio tower site changes and the purchase and installation of additional software and equipment for the replacement of the citywide radio system", so COVID or not, the system is moving forward. I see the City just renewed the licenses for the NCTCOG Simulcast and County sites, but no new licenses, so this system may still be a ways out. Keep in mind, the Collin County system has taken 4 years (and there was a number of change orders that added delays), so seeing a 3 year project for this is not unreasonable (my employer is in Year 2 of what was to of been a 1 year project, and the new timeline is pushing Year 3 before the project is put in service, not to mention change orders, vendor changes and cost overruns)
 

hiegtx

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So, this set me off into "research" mode of open/public records, and I was able to find some information. The $48 Million project was approved and the purchase order submitted for the installation and 15 years of maintenance was sent to Motorola in December 2017/January 2018 (it was approved by City Council approved it mid-December, so its just a matter of how long it took finance to issue the order). The City Council also accepted a $10 Million reimbursement from the County for access to the system (no other agencies mentioned participating in the cost sharing agreement).
While I did not make the point clearly, there was a discussion of other cities that might be encouraged to join the system in the discussion of the the (then) proposed new system.

Read through this thread, posted back in 2017.

For a short mention of other "potential' agencies that might have some interest, see page 20 of this linked document from a post in the thread noted above.

Obviously, there will be fewer potential "members" than were originally discussed, since the Park Cities & Seagoville have already made the decision to move to GMRS. And, as already discussed. several others mentioned likely will not be interested in a combines system.
To my understanding (atleast for Balch Springs) is they plan on staying on their current 800MHz system. They've actually added an additional repeater (or two?) for Public Works and I overheard the other being a multi-use channel since they're doing work on their EOC and I guess that's apart of a disaster plan. I've been hesitant to submit an update until I can confirm they are using them as such.

I know they have the GMRS system programmed in their portables and have heard them use it before, although last time I checked their mobiles lacked any bit of GMRS being in it.

I'd be great to have most agencies on the same system but not everyone can play nice in the sandbox, which I understand.
Unfortunately, there is is much less cooperation and coordination between Dallas County agencies than exists for the numerous members on FWRRS.
 
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