XTS/XTL won't receive.

[dasnps]

I have discovered an issue with both my XTS/XTL. For some reason, it will not receive a frequency. I have checked the frequency and tone multiple times and it is right in the radio. My scanner will pick up without a problem, radio will not. If I turn monitor on, it picks up traffic. It seems like the PL tone is wrong, but it is not.

I have a similar issue with another channel. The channel is run as BM, yet I cannot hear the base on my radio. Same thing, where it comes through fine on my scanner, yet nothing on the radio from the base. Can hear the mobile units on the radio. When I turn monitor on, I can hear both sides.

I am stumped as to what is causing the issue, since the programming appears right.

 

[N4DES]

The CTCSS level that the repeater is transmitting could be too low in deviation for the Motorola to decode or did you check the narrow/wide setting? If the system is narrowband and the radio is set to wide it would be expecting a higher deviation CTCSS tone and the squelch won't open.

 

[blaze]

The CTCSS level that the repeater is transmitting could be too low in deviation for the Motorola to decode or did you check the narrow/wide setting? If the system is narrowband and the radio is set to wide it would be expecting a higher deviation CTCSS tone and the squelch won't open.

On all my radios, PL/CTCSS still works properly even if the narrowband/wideband setting is wrong, so I doubt that's the problem.

That said, I agree that this is almost certainly a PL issue. Perhaps the base doesn't transmit a tone? I've seen systems configured that way (where the PL is used only to control repeater access, but the mobile receivers use carrier squelch).

I've also seen split PL systems (in which the repeater input PL is different from the output PL) where some weird failure causes the input PL not to be filtered and mobiles go out with two PL tones. If you've got such a system and you're trying to decode the wrong PL tone, you'll get exactly the behavior described.

In any case, if its one of the above problems, setting the receive PL to CSQ should fix it.

 

[RKG]

If per chance you have programmed the personality associated with this channel for QC Alert or SelCall, but you also want to hear routine traffic, be sure the unmute qualifier (in the QC screen) is set for "OR".

 

[dasnps]

PL tone is not the issue. I verified the information that is being transmitted with my scanner. If they did indeed narrowband, I know my radio usually just gets choppy, not cuts everything out completely. And the areas where the channels should work, but don't have a very good signal, so I should get choppiness, rather than silence, if anything.

QCII/MDC signalling should not be an issue. Have them set for decode MDC on both personalities, but I use the same personality for multiple channels, all of which are working fine. I had considered both of those already, but did not find anything in the programming to support them.

 

[RKG]

PL tone is not the issue. I verified the information that is being transmitted with my scanner. If they did indeed narrowband, I know my radio usually just gets choppy, not cuts everything out completely. And the areas where the channels should work, but don't have a very good signal, so I should get choppiness, rather than silence, if anything.

QCII/MDC signalling should not be an issue. Have them set for decode MDC on both personalities, but I use the same personality for multiple channels, all of which are working fine. I had considered both of those already, but did not find anything in the programming to support them.

OK, but be sure the MDC qualifier is "OR".

(MDC can be used for Alert or SelCall; I shouldn't have limited my response to QC.)

 

[dasnps]

It is set for OR. I don't think MDC would be the issue anyway, since everything works fine with the other channels associated with the same conventional personalities. It is only these two channels giving me issues.

 

[blaze]

You say that its not a PL/tone issue, but the symptoms you describe, If I understand correctly are:
-you can hear mobile units fine
- on the same channel, you can't hear the base unless you go in to monitor mode, but in monitor mode, you can hear the base fine.

Correct?

From first principles, your radio has no magic way to know that something is coming from a base or mobile transmitter. This means that the base and mobile units are transmitting some sort of different encoding that's allowing the mobiles to unmute your radio and the base not to unmute your radio. The mostly likely problem is that the base and mobiles are using a different PL. How sure are you that the base PL is the same as what you've programmed in? Have you actually measured it independently, or are you just going by what is in an online database?

If it's not the PL, it could be other signalling options that the mobiles are sending.

I suggest you go through all the signalling and tone options in the channel personality and list them here; that will help us suggest more possibilities.

 

[dasnps]

Alright, first channel I have confirmed numerous times. It is the company I work for, so I matched the info in the DB with what came up on my scanner and confirmed it with what is in the codeplug of our work radios, so I am 100% certain that it is correct.

First is 155.265 PL 192.8 25khz, both tx and rx, set for Mixed mode Rx, Analog TX (I have my whole radio set for mixed mode, so shouldn't be an issue. Has worked fine since I have had the radio).
Set for MDC signalling on OR, with selective call decode and TX inhibit on busy checked and PTT ID enabled.

Second channel is RX only PD channel in neighboring county. Can easily receive from home with some static, but no problem otherwise. Not a distance issue, since wouldn't work in the county at all. Other regions of the same county worked without fail, just the one doesn't.

154.875 PL 167.9 25khz, rx only, also mixed mode.
Same signalling options as above.

Both are currently set for wideband, but I can confirm that the top channel is still FM and has not narrowbanded yet. The bottom one may have switched, I have not confirmed that yet. But, I know that the audio would be choppy on my radio, since I have had that happen before.

 

[blaze]

Ah, OK.

Why are you using MDC Selcall? Are you *sure* both your company system and the local PD are using it?

If you turn off rx selcal (set to "disabled"), does it still receive the mobiles? If this causes you to stop receiving the mobiles, then the problem is the wrong PL. (The mobile are presumably sending pre-MDC that unmutes your selcall, but not the base).

Also, try the following: disable RX selcall. And set the receive PL to CSQ. Does it receive everything now? If so, work backwards and first try to determine the correct PL.

I'd leave the selcall off unless there's some specific reason you need it.

By the way, PL should continue to work fine if you get the wideband/narrowband wrong, but MDC generally requires that you get it right. If your mobiles are narrowband and your base is wideband (or vis versa), then you'll only be able to decode MDC from one or the other.

 

[dasnps]

So I went through different combinations of settings and have found the issue on one of the channels. It turns out that NFM was the problem. Didn't quite expect to see that, but the whole reason the second channel was not receiving at all was I had it set for FM, when they had infact narrowbanded. Not sure on the second one yet. I changed some settings, but there has been no activity on it yet to try. I will attempt a radio check at work tomorrow if I do not hear anything before then to see if it indeed works too.

 

[N4DES]

So I went through different combinations of settings and have found the issue on one of the channels. It turns out that NFM was the problem. Didn't quite expect to see that, but the whole reason the second channel was not receiving at all was I had it set for FM, when they had infact narrowbanded. Not sure on the second one yet. I changed some settings, but there has been no activity on it yet to try. I will attempt a radio check at work tomorrow if I do not hear anything before then to see if it indeed works too.

Narrowband is FM as well. The difference is the amount of deviation (5KHz vs. 2.5KHz) that is allowed on the Part 90 frequencies between 150 and 512 MHz.

Glad you found one of the problems.

 

[dasnps]

Other system is the same. Was programmed for wrong bandwidth. But that leads me to a follow-up question. It seems that at least as far as my work system goes, they did not do things properly. It appears that they only narrowbanded the base stations and left the field units as is. Now, the field units sound garbled, but I can hear the base. I think I already know the answer to this, but is there any way to compensate when one side is narrowbanded and the other is not?

 

[blaze]

Other system is the same. Was programmed for wrong bandwidth. But that leads me to a follow-up question. It seems that at least as far as my work system goes, they did not do things properly. It appears that they only narrowbanded the base stations and left the field units as is. Now, the field units sound garbled, but I can hear the base. I think I already know the answer to this, but is there any way to compensate when one side is narrowbanded and the other is not?

If you're using MDC, no; there does not seem to be any way decode MDC from mixed narrow and wideband sources.

If you're just using PL, setting your radio to wideband will allow you to receive both (the narrowband units you receive will have slightly lower audio), but, obviously, you'll be transmitting in wideband if you do this.

 

[WA0CBW]

Your problem should go away by January 1, 2013. By that date they will have to have all the mobiles and portables narrowbanded as well. ALL transmitters will need to be narrowbanded by then.

BB

 

[rbrtklamp2]

You should probably also make sure your radio is in repeater (rpt) mode or direct (Dir) mode I have had a problem a few times very similar to what you are describing and I was using the repeater setting on a direct channel. Make sure that if you have that enabled in the menu items that it is set correctly on the radio after you write the code plug to it.

Hope this helps,
Bob

 

[cmdrwill]

Your problem should go away by January 1, 2013. By that date they will have to have all the mobiles and portables narrowbanded as well. ALL transmitters will need to be narrowbanded by then.
BB

Don't hold your breath...

 

[dasnps]

I really hope this all goes away soon. Trying to figure out who actually is narrowbanded, vs just switched their licenses, vs who is still wideband is very frustrating. I keep getting a lot wrong and then everything sounds terrible in the radio and I can't hear a lot of it. Fingers crossed that it all goes away when it is supposed to.

 

[dasnps]

So for a quick follow-up. Turns out setting the radio for NFM was not the problem. That just made the audio choppy like it normally does and I could not make out anything. Ended up having to switch it back to FM and CSQ in order to be able to hear everything I need to. I did find out that my problem started about the time we redid our radio system infrastructure. Everything used to be via UHF links and they redid everything to be VOIP instead. That is about when my problem started. The HT1250/CDM1250 we normally carry work fine, my XTS does not.

I also checked the settings I have compared to a work HT1250 for the channels in question, MDC, and basic radio settings and everything is identical.

 

[N4KVE]

Here in S. Florida there's a UHF rptr on 444.650. Tx, & rx pl of 127.3. My 8 Jedi's hear the rptr perfectly & decode the rx pl. However none of my Astro Sabers [6] can decode the pl on this rptr so I have to leave rx pl off for this freq. All the Astro Sabers decode all the other local rptr's just fine, & all my radios are in tune. The owner of the repeater also swears his rptr is in spec. I did have 1 Astro Saber that could decode this repeater, but I sold it. Even my XTS5000 won't decode the rx pl on this rptr, & it was recently aligned. Just one of those things. I just leave the pl decode open on this freq.