XTS5000 NAS Roaming

[drsn0w]

Good evening RR,

I have NAS setup on my XTS5k for my local P25 Phase I system. It's working great but I currently only have the closest site programmed into the ASTRO25 Control Channels tab. I would like to be able to drive a county over and still use the same setup, roaming onto the next county's tower, etc. Is this possible with NAS, and if so, how do I go about this?

Thank you,
drsn0w

 

[rescue161]

I will assume the system that you are monitoring is a large system and that you want to hear the same system/talkgroups on the tower in the next county. Depending on how the talkgroups are provisioned in the system, you may or may not be able to hear that traffic. Hear are a few problems:

1) Since your radio is NAS, it won't affiliate to the new tower, so unless a legit radio is affiliated to the new tower on the same talkgroup that you are monitoring, you won't hear any traffic.
2) Systems typically set up a talkgroup to route traffic only so far away, unless the talkgroup is a statewide channel. The system that you are monitoring may or may not be using this management style. The systems that I am affiliated with are set up to only send traffic up to one county away from its home. This keeps people on the other side of the state from tuning in when natural disasters occur on the other side of the state, which tie up resources.
3) If my assumptions about it being the same system are wrong, and you want to monitor a completely different system, then #1 & #2 are not applicable.

If it is a completely different system, you'll have to program another zone for NAS on that system. Either way your mileage may vary.

 

[fmulder13]

Rescue is right. The main issue is that you can't control which talkgroups are carried on which tower, nor can you control which tower the radio chooses to listen to if you give it options. However, I've played with this possibility, and it's worked. My XTS's have transitioned smoothly from tower to tower. You may wish to adjust the threshold settings, as your mileage my vary with those.

 

[drsn0w]

I will assume the system that you are monitoring is a large system and that you want to hear the same system/talkgroups on the tower in the next county. Depending on how the talkgroups are provisioned in the system, you may or may not be able to hear that traffic. Hear are a few problems:

1) Since your radio is NAS, it won't affiliate to the new tower, so unless a legit radio is affiliated to the new tower on the same talkgroup that you are monitoring, you won't hear any traffic.
2) Systems typically set up a talkgroup to route traffic only so far away, unless the talkgroup is a statewide channel. The system that you are monitoring may or may not be using this management style. The systems that I am affiliated with are set up to only send traffic up to one county away from its home. This keeps people on the other side of the state from tuning in when natural disasters occur on the other side of the state, which tie up resources.
3) If my assumptions about it being the same system are wrong, and you want to monitor a completely different system, then #1 & #2 are not applicable.

If it is a completely different system, you'll have to program another zone for NAS on that system. Either way your mileage may vary.

thanks for the reply! I don’t need to listen to the same talkgroups necessarily. Some of them are broadcast on both towers, such as state patrol, but if I go into the next county over I’ll switch to that county’s scan list I setup. I guess my question is more of an organization question. I could program in each county as its own trunking system, but that gets cluttered really fast.

Some followup questions:
If I live in county A, can I program in the CC freq’s from county B and C without affecting scanning speed in one individual county? (Assuming I’ll park the radio on the corresponding scan list depending on which county I’m in)

Do the preferred/always/never site selections work correctly? This way I can setup each county’s scan list with the corresponding county site as “preferred”

Thanks,
drsn0w

 

[Outerdog]

1. Scanning speed of the talk groups will not be affected by the number of control channel frequencies. Once the radio has a CC, it has it until the RSSI drops below the specified threshold.

2. Preferred Sites: I've heard mixed reports with this. Personally, I haven't had much luck with it on XTS/L, but it does work on APX.

Regarding your original thoughts on "roaming" -- I have found it beneficial to place each cell (county, whatever) in its own trunking system. This configuration allows the radio to be directed to a tower/cell where the desired traffic is where it otherwise might stay on the previous site/cell because the RSSI of that control channel is still acceptable.

Whether or not you should do this really all depends on the geography around you and the topography of the system.

 

[KVL3000]

1. Scanning speed of the talk groups will not be affected by the number of control channel frequencies. Once the radio has a CC, it has it until the RSSI drops below the specified threshold.

2. Preferred Sites: I've heard mixed reports with this. Personally, I haven't had much luck with it on XTS/L, but it does work on APX.

Regarding your original thoughts on "roaming" -- I have found it beneficial to place each cell (county, whatever) in its own trunking system. This configuration allows the radio to be directed to a tower/cell where the desired traffic is where it otherwise might stay on the previous site/cell because the RSSI of that control channel is still acceptable.

Whether or not you should do this really all depends on the geography around you and the topography of the system.

If I may ask, How would one go about doing that on an APX? That what i've been trying to so for the past month, roaming batween the dallas and denton sites on this system: Dallas P25 / NCTCOG Trunking System, Dallas, Fort Worth Area, Texas - Scanner Frequencies Trying to roam between Dallas simulcast and NCTCOG Denton

 

[drsn0w]

Regarding your original thoughts on "roaming" -- I have found it beneficial to place each cell (county, whatever) in its own trunking system. This configuration allows the radio to be directed to a tower/cell where the desired traffic is where it otherwise might stay on the previous site/cell because the RSSI of that control channel is still acceptable.

Hmm okay, that makes a lot of sense, especially if the preferred site setting doesn't seem to work on the XTS/L series. I'll have to do some of my own experimentation with that. For the most part each county is roughly in it's own valley and seperated from the neighboring ones by mountains (continental divide one side in fact). I know a good spot up where I can hit two county's towers pretty evenly where I can try some tests with the preferred site.

Thanks for all the info guys, this really helped!

 

[Outerdog]

If I may ask, How would one go about doing that on an APX? That what i've been trying to so for the past month, roaming batween the dallas and denton sites on this system: Dallas P25 / NCTCOG Trunking System, Dallas, Fort Worth Area, Texas - Scanner Frequencies Trying to roam between Dallas simulcast and NCTCOG Denton

It's in Trunking Personalities > Preferred Sites

The setting is (obviously) per personality, so you create any number of personalities. Add the site IDs of the system. Set the desired preference for each site (none, least, preferred, always). Then add talk groups for that site/personality and preference.

You don't have to add all sites; just the ones you expect to use. BUT, you must add adjacent sites with a strong RSSI that you DO NOT want that particular personality to use, and set the preference to Never.

In the CPS I'm looking at, the help file is wrong. Help file says "least preferred" and the selection is actually "never".

 

[KVL3000]

It's in Trunking Personalities > Preferred Sites

The setting is (obviously) per personality, so you create any number of personalities. Add the site IDs of the system. Set the desired preference for each site (none, least, preferred, always). Then add talk groups for that site/personality and preference.

You don't have to add all sites; just the ones you expect to use. BUT, you must add adjacent sites with a strong RSSI that you DO NOT want that particular personality to use, and set the preference to Never.

In the CPS I'm looking at, the help file is wrong. Help file says "least preferred" and the selection is actually "never".

thank you so much!

 

[IAmSixNine]

If I may ask, How would one go about doing that on an APX? That what i've been trying to so for the past month, roaming batween the dallas and denton sites on this system: Dallas P25 / NCTCOG Trunking System, Dallas, Fort Worth Area, Texas - Scanner Frequencies Trying to roam between Dallas simulcast and NCTCOG Denton

You need to treat this like 2 different systems. Ok maybe not need, but i recommend
Dallas Simulcast does not pass audio from its TG to the NCTCOG sites. So 1/1 is its own and 1/20, 1/21, 1/22 and 1/23 are linked and have their own talk group assignments. Assuming a radio is affiliated with any of those 4 sites.
Example the NTTA DPS ONLY work with the COG sites, not the Dallas Simulcast 1/1 sites.
And the Dallas City water dept only work on 1/1 Simulcast and NOT on any of the COG sites.
Even though its one system treat it as if its 2.
If you need more help with it create a new thread in the Texas forum.

 

[slobonmycob]

Good evening RR,

I have NAS setup on my XTS5k for my local P25 Phase I system. It's working great but I currently only have the closest site programmed into the ASTRO25 Control Channels tab. I would like to be able to drive a county over and still use the same setup, roaming onto the next county's tower, etc. Is this possible with NAS, and if so, how do I go about this?

Thank you,
drsn0w

RP to actually answer your question, you need to check INTRA-WACN roaming.

If I live in county A, can I program in the CC freq’s from county B and C without affecting scanning speed in one individual county? (Assuming I’ll park the radio on the corresponding scan list depending on which county I’m in)

That's not necessary if the WACN ID'S are the same. You only need to program one trunking system and one trunking personality and check INTRA-WACN roaming. Once done, you need to drive around to allow the radio to pick up on the system, preferably drive as close as possible to one of the tower sites in both counties B and C, it doesn't work instantly.

Also, make sure your band-plan is entered correctly. If you're hearing traffic already without affiliating you must've done something right.