Yaesu AR-DV10 with a receiver made by AOR

[woodpecker]

How is Icom "hurt'? They are loosing a very small amount of customers who must have DMR but in the big picture, Yaesu Fusion is a tiny little fraction of what anyone would listen to. And although DMR is gaining popularity in both amateur and commercial use, its not really a format for public service comms, which is what sells most "police scanners".

The DV10 and Icom R30 are not marketed as police scanners, DMR is by far the biggest digital mode in Europe and having that mode missing will massively hurt sales of it here. These Japanese companies have become so arrogrant, they don't listen to what customers want anymore, the first company that produces receivers (that work properly) with HF, Analogue, DMR, NXDN and P25 will be onto a real winner, AOR failed, Icom failed.

 

[marlbrook]

How is Icom "hurt'? They are loosing a very small amount of customers who must have DMR

I have to defer to your apparently detailed sources / information re. ICOM's worldwide sales figures, and their results in relation to DMR.

In the UK and other places in Europe DMR is very popular, and appears to be growing in popularity. I cannot present figures for this. Others I imagine can support that remark.

You do seem to confirm that ICOM are 'losing' sales by not incorporating DMR. I fail to see how choosing NOT to increase sales by any degree can be a sensible economic decision.

I see my radio as more of a high end HF/UHF/VHF/Microwave DX machine and not a police scanner

The guy who bought a Ferarri doesn't care about the same things you do

Perhaps ICOM also see it worthwhile as a 'CLASS' decision though. i.e they do not want the sort of Customer who are not in the 8600 or Ferrari owners 'class' or buy an AR-DV1, which would match your assessment of it as "being a mediocre quality receiver at best", so left out DMR and other Modes on that basis, LOL.

 

[prcguy]

What makes sense to you may not be the same for Icom's marketing group. They made a conscience decision not to include DMR and we can only speculate why, but apparently its a sensible economic decision for them. Not everything is a black and white answer to people on the outside.

The company I worked for was very large with a huge customer base and in the public eye all the time. Our systems worked a certain way and did certain things for a reason and we would laugh out loud reading the various forums and seeing what people thought we were doing and why, because they were hopelessly wrong. I suspect Icom reads our posts and does the same. For sure they know some of us want DMR. If we get it, great, if not, I'm still a happy R8600 owner.

And yes, I would classify the DV1 as a mediocre quality receiver based on its RF specs and performance. It does a lot of unique things and its got better RF specs than some, but its not what you would call a world class receiver.

I have to defer to your apparently detailed sources / information re. ICOM's worldwide sales figures, and their results in relation to DMR.

In the UK and other places in Europe DMR is very popular, and appears to be growing in popularity. I cannot present figures for this. Others I imagine can support that remark.

You do seem to confirm that ICOM are 'losing' sales by not incorporating DMR. I fail to see how choosing NOT to increase sales by any degree can be a sensible economic decision.



Perhaps ICOM also see it worthwhile as a 'CLASS' decision though. i.e they do not want the sort of Customer who are not in the 8600 or Ferrari owners 'class' or buy an AR-DV1, which would match your assessment of it as "being a mediocre quality receiver at best", so left out DMR and other Modes on that basis, LOL.

 

[woodpecker]

I believe Icom won't add DMR because they only want to promote iDas (NXDN) and dStar and not modes they see as competition to that, they need to wake up to the fact that globally DMR is far more popular than NXDN, for me their products have become irrelevant without DMR, around 95% of digital radio here is DMR.

If AOR took their heads out of the sand, fixed the frequency drift and properly sorted out the firmware, they could have a winner in the DV10, alas that's never going to happen, 3 months to change the battery icon! Jokers...

 

[marlbrook]

Although this thread is about the AR-DV10, it seems reasonable to include references to its big brother, the AR-DV1, and nearest competition, the ICOM IC-30, as others have already done.

What makes sense to you may not be the same for Icom's marketing group. They made a conscience decision not to include DMR and we can only speculate why, but apparently its a sensible economic decision for them. Not everything is a black and white answer to people on the outside.

Once again I must defer to your expert knowledge in all these areas. I am a bit puzzled why it would be a decision of 'conscience' though.

If it makes sense to ICOM to ignore an aspect which would obviously make one or more of its products more attractive, and consequently increase sales, even by a modest figure, then given your experience and judgement you must be right, and my considering it as illogical consequently flawed.

The company I worked for was very large with a huge customer base and in the public eye all the time. Our systems worked a certain way and did certain things for a reason and we would laugh out loud reading the various forums and seeing what people thought we were doing and why

In added support of your views, AOR may also probably 'laugh out loud' at others who report on the problems of the DV10 in Forums, and 'damn the sales figures' (SIGH).

Customer's wants, suggestions and opinions are seemingly merely an irrelevant, ill informed nuisance, to those who really matter, but perhaps tolerated just as a source of amusement, as you say.

 

[SigIntel8600]

How is Icom "hurt'? They are loosing a very small amount of customers who must have DMR but in the big picture, Yaesu Fusion is a tiny little fraction of what anyone would listen to. And although DMR is gaining popularity in both amateur and commercial use, its not really a format for public service comms, which is what sells most "police scanners". I would certainly like to have DMR or even Fusion in my R8600, but I see my radio as more of a high end HF/UHF/VHF/Microwave DX machine and not a police scanner.

Your statement is like telling someone who just bought a Ferarri that its a piece of crap because it can't carry the family with all six kids and a dog, and its trunk space sucks and the gas mileage is terrible. The guy who bought a Ferarri doesn't care about the same things you do.

If you are happy paying more than 2 K for a receiver that cannot decode currently available digital modes, more power to you. Your ICOM Ferrari comes in dead last in a DMR race.

 

[iMONITOR]

I would certainly like to have DMR or even Fusion in my R8600, but I see my radio as more of a high end HF/UHF/VHF/Microwave DX machine and not a police scanner.

How is the HF performance on the R8600 compare with the receive on your IC-7300 transceiver?

 

[prcguy]

The Icom R8600s that have been tested have shown different levels of performance, but all are better than the Icom 7300 and some are better than most anything ever tested by Sherwood Engineering and others.

How is the HF performance on the R8600 compare with the receive on your IC-7300 transceiver?

 

[prcguy]

A few of you in this thread are using the same analogy on two different beasts. One is a fantastic, top shelf performing receiver with no flaws that is missing a digital mode or two (Icom R8600. The other is a seriously flawed receiver that has most digital modes AOR DV10. Which one wins the race? For me, I bought an R8600 not for its digital modes, but its raw performance. I would have bought a DV10 had it actually worked, but that will probably never happen.

Although this thread is about the AR-DV10, it seems reasonable to include references to its big brother, the AR-DV1, and nearest competition, the ICOM IC-30, as others have already done.



Once again I must defer to your expert knowledge in all these areas. I am a bit puzzled why it would be a decision of 'conscience' though.

If it makes sense to ICOM to ignore an aspect which would obviously make one or more of its products more attractive, and consequently increase sales, even by a modest figure, then given your experience and judgement you must be right, and my considering it as illogical consequently flawed.



In added support of your views, AOR may also probably 'laugh out loud' at others who report on the problems of the DV10 in Forums, and 'damn the sales figures' (SIGH).

Customer's wants, suggestions and opinions are seemingly merely an irrelevant, ill informed nuisance, to those who really matter, but perhaps tolerated just as a source of amusement, as you say.

 

[prcguy]

And a final comment on this, the R8600 is a bargain at twice that price. Its performance beats receivers and transceivers costing twice again that price.

If you are happy paying more than 2 K for a receiver that cannot decode currently available digital modes, more power to you. Your ICOM Ferrari comes in dead last in a DMR race.

 

[SigIntel8600]

And a final comment on this, the R8600 is a bargain at twice that price. Its performance beats receivers and transceivers costing twice again that price.

Unless of course you are trying to listen to DMR, or Fusion, or Alinco Digital........................LOL

 

[marlbrook]

A few of you in this thread are using the same analogy on two different beasts. One is a fantastic, top shelf performing receiver with no flaws that is missing a digital mode or two (Icom R8600. The other is a seriously flawed receiver that has most digital modes

Well that puts the rest of us rightly and finally in our place, lol.

Nobody has questioned the fact that the 8600 is a good receiver, although we may mistakenly not be able to understand or appreciate that it is the best of the best.

I bought an R8600 not for its digital modes, but its raw performance.

You love your 8600, I am genuinely pleased for you about that, however rightly or wrongly many people love their other 'very inferior' Receivers too, and ARE interested in buying a Receiver for its digital mode capability.

I was surprised to read that even 8600's vary, especially as you describe it as having 'no flaws'. Some are then better than the best it seems, lol.

What makes sense to you may not be the same for Icom's marketing group. They made a conscience decision not to include DMR and we can only speculate why, but apparently its a sensible economic decision for them

The Companies are apparently making the correct commercial decisions, we have been told, because they must know what they are doing, and we, the actual or potential Customers have no place questioning that.

However, to get back to the point.

AOR are not apparently willing to put the DV10 right.

ICOM are refusing to add DMR which would make the IC-30 and dare I suggest, the 8600 more desirable, especially in Europe.

I think that a lot of Forum readers, and those reading this thread are, and are entitled to be unhappy about both decisions, irrespective of which Receivers they own or are pleased with.

Some may think that is the real point of this thread.