Is the M-100 worth several hundreds of dollars more than the M-70? I hate the hand mike for station operation and while I have a Heil headset, it can give me a headache if worn for an extended time.
Yaesu: Yaesu desk microphones
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prcguy
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I have not specifically used the M100 but no amateur grade mic should cost that much. What kind of radio are you using? Does it have internal adjustable mic EQ, compression and other settings to accommodate different mics?
I've spent a lot (I mean a lot) of time playing with every conceivable mic, preamp, EQ, compressor combination out there including many Shure and EV dynamics to various large capsule condenser studio mics, ribbons, you name it and used a friend who is an award winning designer of commercial mic preamp and compressor products to adjust everything for a rocking hot sound. My most recent radios have been newer Icoms and I've settled on the Electro Voice RE-27 and the Heil PR-781, they can make you sound like a late night FM DJ but louder.
Many of these mics are available used on eBay cheap and I only paid $125 for the EV RE-27 at the Dayton hamstervention years ago. Stick one of these mics on a used but good quality PTT stand and you will have many times the quality and sound compared to the Yaesu M100 for a fraction of the cost.
I should also ask what kind of sound are you looking for? Every mic has its good and bad points and when you get past a certain point there can be very little difference between a $100 and $500 mic. For example, the stock hand mic that comes with newer Icom 7300s and 7610s can be adjusted to sound better than most radios and mics out there and that is all about the adjustments available within the radio. Going from the stock hand mic to a Heil PR-781 with related adjustments gives a different kind of sound, a smoother more FM DJ sound than the stock mic can be adjusted to and going from the $200 retail 781 to a $500 retail EV RE-27 is a very subtle change that some people might not pick up on but it puts you a tiny bit closer to being in the same room with the guy your talking to over the air.
In my experience going from the Heil PR-781 to their flagship (POS) PR-40 goes way bassy and leaves you with a very narrow specific distance you must keep from the mic otherwise it gets real boomy or the bass drops way off. In contrast, the EV RE-27 and RE-20 will let you eat the mic or back off a foot and it sounds about the same, just weaker at a distance.
Anyway, let us know if you are looking for a completely neutral sound with nothing added like you are there in person or something that will cut through a pileup and sound like your 100w radio is doing 500w or something in between.
I've spent a lot (I mean a lot) of time playing with every conceivable mic, preamp, EQ, compressor combination out there including many Shure and EV dynamics to various large capsule condenser studio mics, ribbons, you name it and used a friend who is an award winning designer of commercial mic preamp and compressor products to adjust everything for a rocking hot sound. My most recent radios have been newer Icoms and I've settled on the Electro Voice RE-27 and the Heil PR-781, they can make you sound like a late night FM DJ but louder.
Many of these mics are available used on eBay cheap and I only paid $125 for the EV RE-27 at the Dayton hamstervention years ago. Stick one of these mics on a used but good quality PTT stand and you will have many times the quality and sound compared to the Yaesu M100 for a fraction of the cost.
I should also ask what kind of sound are you looking for? Every mic has its good and bad points and when you get past a certain point there can be very little difference between a $100 and $500 mic. For example, the stock hand mic that comes with newer Icom 7300s and 7610s can be adjusted to sound better than most radios and mics out there and that is all about the adjustments available within the radio. Going from the stock hand mic to a Heil PR-781 with related adjustments gives a different kind of sound, a smoother more FM DJ sound than the stock mic can be adjusted to and going from the $200 retail 781 to a $500 retail EV RE-27 is a very subtle change that some people might not pick up on but it puts you a tiny bit closer to being in the same room with the guy your talking to over the air.
In my experience going from the Heil PR-781 to their flagship (POS) PR-40 goes way bassy and leaves you with a very narrow specific distance you must keep from the mic otherwise it gets real boomy or the bass drops way off. In contrast, the EV RE-27 and RE-20 will let you eat the mic or back off a foot and it sounds about the same, just weaker at a distance.
Anyway, let us know if you are looking for a completely neutral sound with nothing added like you are there in person or something that will cut through a pileup and sound like your 100w radio is doing 500w or something in between.
I'm running a FTDX101D and want a desk microphone. I'm considering a M-70, but some believe the M-100 to be better. How much better is the quantitative answer I'm looking for. The qualitative audio response is less important. I don't transmit from an anechoic room and I don't want to sound like Casey Kasem or other famous DJ.
My audiophile days are behind me thanks to occupational noise damage and I don't need perfect reproduction. A nice quality 'mike' that is more 'conversational' sounding would best define it.
Thanks for eliciting points that I overlooked.
My audiophile days are behind me thanks to occupational noise damage and I don't need perfect reproduction. A nice quality 'mike' that is more 'conversational' sounding would best define it.
Thanks for eliciting points that I overlooked.
my 2 cents- no microphone is worth "hundreds of dollars" to me for ham radio use. I have a number of different dynamic microphones made by Shure, Heil, Astatic etc. and unless I call attention to the fact that I am switching from one to another no one says a thing about it. My guess is that you could buy an M-70, tell others it was an M-100 and they will not be able to tell the difference or vice versa.
Get whatever kind of microphone that looks comfortable to use, tell everyone it is a <insert expensive model here> and they will tell you how good it sounds.
Get whatever kind of microphone that looks comfortable to use, tell everyone it is a <insert expensive model here> and they will tell you how good it sounds.
I do not have an experience with either microphone, or that radio, but my gut tells me that if you are questioning it, there isn't going to be enough of a quantifiable improvement to justify it. You would be better to get 2 or more friends online at the same time and work through the settings (gain, treble, bass, etc.) to get a natural sound that all online can agree on.
smason
Member
No kidding! Just for grins, I googled the M100. Holy mother of Marconi! That's insane.
prcguy
Member
You have a pretty good little radio there, top of the heap for reception. If I was conversing with someone who had a FTDX101D I would expect the transmit audio to grab me and make me want to get that radio at all cost. With that said, the Yaesu M70 has a very wide bandwith electret condenser element and the internal EQ in the radio should be able to extract whatever type of sound you want. Yes swapping an M70 with an M100 might show an improvement with fixed settings but you have the ability to tweak the most out of any mic you plug in, so make good use of that.
The key to adjusting the EQ is to have friends, more than one, who know your voice and who are very particular themselves about audio help you adjust the settings. They listen and tell you more bass, less highs, more mid, a little more compression, etc, until they are happy with the sound. Its impossible to extract the best sound by you listening to your own voice through headphones while adjusting things. In my opinion the best sound would sound just like you and cut through the noise without being harsh or objectional with some compression to make up for different speaking levels and mic distance.
Not making use of all the transmit adjustments would be like leaving your receive BW in narrow and never using the RF gain. You have a radio with wonderful tools, use them!
The key to adjusting the EQ is to have friends, more than one, who know your voice and who are very particular themselves about audio help you adjust the settings. They listen and tell you more bass, less highs, more mid, a little more compression, etc, until they are happy with the sound. Its impossible to extract the best sound by you listening to your own voice through headphones while adjusting things. In my opinion the best sound would sound just like you and cut through the noise without being harsh or objectional with some compression to make up for different speaking levels and mic distance.
Not making use of all the transmit adjustments would be like leaving your receive BW in narrow and never using the RF gain. You have a radio with wonderful tools, use them!
I don't mind spending money on quality gear, but it has to have some inherent and obvious benefit other than two different types of mic elements in it. No one has been able to effectively explain why the M-100 costs what it does.
There’s a guy on 20m who does nothing but give people advice as they adjust their audio settings and talk to him. He’s actually pretty good and helped me improve audio quality on my hand mic on my 991A. I forget his callsign and haven’t heard him for awhile.
On the other hand, I heard a guy today whose signal was weak, overly compressed, and slightly off frequency giving someone else audio advice.
I could use a better mic, but can’t justify that much for a M100. I could get a lot more antenna and better coax for that price.
On the other hand, I heard a guy today whose signal was weak, overly compressed, and slightly off frequency giving someone else audio advice.
I could use a better mic, but can’t justify that much for a M100. I could get a lot more antenna and better coax for that price.
I once heard it said that when it comes to buying any piece of technology, whether it be microphones or shock absorbers for your car, don't buy the cheapest and don't buy the most expensive. The cheapest is usually junk and the most expensive is usually a result of someone trying to separate you from your money in the name of "quality". If nobody can explain why the M-100 costs so much, then it's probably not worth it. I do suspect that Yaesu is charging you a premium for the ability to switch between dynamic and condenser mic elements. The manual is downloadable--here's a link to the manual on DX Engineering's website: https://static.dxengineering.com/global/images/instructions/ysu-m-100_xq.pdf
How can some stranger who has only heard you on SSB know how your voice really sounds?
NC1
Member
I use a MD-100A8X on my FTdx-3000 and I get great reports on my audio from people who know me in person. With the settings you can change on both the microphone and the radio it can take a little time to get dialed in on your target, but the result for me was well worth it. I can't imagine a more expensive mic making any discernible difference.
prcguy
Member
With many modern radios with internal EQ and compression and TX BW settings you can literally take a $3 electret condenser capsule, wire it up and make the radio sound golden. Many amateur mics that cost a lot use a $3 or less electret capsule inside. If you want a better mic you can shop for a Primo brand capsule (that's an actual brand) and up the sound quality slightly.
I'm not saying to build your own base mic from scratch, that would take a lot of work, but just be aware that some of these exorbitant priced amateur mics probably have very inexpensive innards. Maybe the Yaesu MD100 has a more expensive Primo capsule inside, who knows?
I'm not saying to build your own base mic from scratch, that would take a lot of work, but just be aware that some of these exorbitant priced amateur mics probably have very inexpensive innards. Maybe the Yaesu MD100 has a more expensive Primo capsule inside, who knows?
He doesn’t. He provides feedback on whether he thinks the audio sounds, muddy, tinny, overly compressed, hot/noisy, punctual on consonants (like p, s, t) etc. I’ve listened to him for a while and IMO he has improved many people’s audio in a matter of minutes. His recommendations to me helped me better understand the ALC and compression settings on my rig.
prcguy
Member
About that ALC meter in your radio....
Ignore it. Who is to say its even adjusted right to give you a reading that is meaningful? In my experience with probably hundreds of radios I've never seen an ALC meter give me any information that was useful. Most go into the red way to early when your mic audio still sounds soft. Many ALC meters can be run completely pegged off and the radio is still sounding soft and has no transmit artifacts. Some radios can wipe out 20KHz of the band due to the transmitter being spanked too hard and the ALC meter barely wiggles. Just ignore it.
The way to adjust mic gain is with someone or several people who know your voice and they have spectral displays on their radios. Along with tweaking EQ you adjust mic gain and find the point where it starts to sound bad or people detect artifacts outside the normal BW of your transmission. Then adjust compression and maybe turn down mic gain slightly due to compression being on to keep a clean signal that sounds loud and punchy. Then you can check for transmit artifacts by getting close and yelling into the mic while people monitor your signal on a spectrum scope and adjust as necessary to keep the great sound and to retain a perfect looking signal with no artifacts. If your friends do not have spectral displays in their radios you will need a spectrum analyzer at your station to monitor for a clean signal.
Do all this and your ALC meter will be really pissed off but you will end up with a fantastic sounding station that will never get any complaints on air. Adjust your mic gain and compression while watching your ALC meter and you will usually end up with a fraction of the potential modulation density and a soft muffled sound that will get lost in the QRM and QRN.
Ignore it. Who is to say its even adjusted right to give you a reading that is meaningful? In my experience with probably hundreds of radios I've never seen an ALC meter give me any information that was useful. Most go into the red way to early when your mic audio still sounds soft. Many ALC meters can be run completely pegged off and the radio is still sounding soft and has no transmit artifacts. Some radios can wipe out 20KHz of the band due to the transmitter being spanked too hard and the ALC meter barely wiggles. Just ignore it.
The way to adjust mic gain is with someone or several people who know your voice and they have spectral displays on their radios. Along with tweaking EQ you adjust mic gain and find the point where it starts to sound bad or people detect artifacts outside the normal BW of your transmission. Then adjust compression and maybe turn down mic gain slightly due to compression being on to keep a clean signal that sounds loud and punchy. Then you can check for transmit artifacts by getting close and yelling into the mic while people monitor your signal on a spectrum scope and adjust as necessary to keep the great sound and to retain a perfect looking signal with no artifacts. If your friends do not have spectral displays in their radios you will need a spectrum analyzer at your station to monitor for a clean signal.
Do all this and your ALC meter will be really pissed off but you will end up with a fantastic sounding station that will never get any complaints on air. Adjust your mic gain and compression while watching your ALC meter and you will usually end up with a fraction of the potential modulation density and a soft muffled sound that will get lost in the QRM and QRN.
A few years ago, when Bob Heil was still on Ham Nation, they cut to him to make a comment about transmit audio. He turned around to one of his Icom radios that he had apparently been using on 20m and started to demonstrate how your ALC should be adjusted to just hit the peaks on the meter. The thing I noticed was that as soon as he started speaking, the ALC meter was pegged. He quickly turned down the mic gain so the ALC wasn't so high. "Hmmm," I said to myself, "maybe Bob Heil doesn't always practice what he preaches."
What if you don't have any friends?
This is a serious question. What if you can't find anyone on the air who knows you well enough to evaluate your audio?
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prcguy
Member
That's because if he did and people heard the result, they wouldn't buy his microphones. I will say some of his mics are fine and some are not. I picked up a pair of the PR-781s and a pair of the PR-40s. I noticed right away the horrible proximity effect on the PR-40 where the bass goes ballistic if you get up on the mic and there is just something a little off with the overall sound. The old discontinued HC-5 was a great replacement for hand mics and it had a nice mid range boost that turned a muffled sounding radio into something you could easily make out.
I brought one of the Heil PR-40s to a friend who is an award winning recording engineer for him to play with it and see what he thought. A few weeks later after trying it on various things in his studio he handed it back and said not to bring it back, ever. I asked if it would even be considered for kick drum and he shook his head and said no, I should just dump it. In contrast I've loaned my friend other mics to test out and none have had such a bad review and one kind of rare side address Sony condenser mic I loaned him got rave reviews and was probably the best hi-hat mic he had come across. It took awhile to get that mic back as it got used on a lot of recordings.
The Heil PR-781 is much more useful for vocals and has less of a proximity affect although its pretty bad compared to a actual mic engineered for close talking voice like the EV RE-20 and RE27. Like most things in life you get what you pay for.
I brought one of the Heil PR-40s to a friend who is an award winning recording engineer for him to play with it and see what he thought. A few weeks later after trying it on various things in his studio he handed it back and said not to bring it back, ever. I asked if it would even be considered for kick drum and he shook his head and said no, I should just dump it. In contrast I've loaned my friend other mics to test out and none have had such a bad review and one kind of rare side address Sony condenser mic I loaned him got rave reviews and was probably the best hi-hat mic he had come across. It took awhile to get that mic back as it got used on a lot of recordings.
The Heil PR-781 is much more useful for vocals and has less of a proximity affect although its pretty bad compared to a actual mic engineered for close talking voice like the EV RE-20 and RE27. Like most things in life you get what you pay for.
GadgetGeek
Member
Now Google the Yaesu M-1 microphone and hold onto your seat.
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