Yaesu FT1DR

Status
Not open for further replies.
S

SARCommCoord

Guest
Just wanted to let everyone know that our Search and Rescue Team (Search and Rescue of Central Florida) purchased 14 new Yaesu FT1DR for our ICS Command staff. All the command staff are amateur radio operators. We have been looking for a new radio system for a while and were torn between public safety or amateur radio. Based on this radio being able to transmit gps, aprs and digital voice, we went with it. The digital voice option also allows us more privacy from the media. I havent had a chance to play with it yet but as soon as I do I will update.
 

AK9R

Lead Wiki Manager
Super Moderator
Joined
Jul 18, 2004
Messages
6,661
Location
Central Indiana
Are you also buying Yaesu's System Fusion digital repeater? Without that repeater, your only repeater access will be to use analog mode using existing analog repeaters. Without that repeater, you will only be able to use the digital mode in handheld-to-handheld communications with limited range.

I don't believe the FT-1DR can transmit APRS position reports while operating in the digital voice mode. To send APRS position reports I believe you will have to be in the analog mode.

D-Star also does not transmit APRS position reports while in digital voice mode. There are "DPRS" gates which interpret received D-Star position reports and inject them into the APRS-IS network so that D-Star position reports are viewable via the Internet like analog APRS position reports. To the best of my knowledge, there is no System Fusion to APRS-IS gateway.

If you want total privacy, you will have to use encrypted land mobile radio service radios, i.e. FCC Part 90. Don't think that the media isn't smart enough to figure out what you are doing.
 
Last edited:
S

SARCommCoord

Guest
Are you also buying Yaesu's System Fusion digital repeater? Without that repeater, your only repeater access will be to use analog mode using existing analog repeaters. Without that repeater, you will only be able to use the digital mode in handheld-to-handheld communications with limited range.

I don't believe the FT-1DR can transmit APRS position reports while operating in the digital voice mode. To send APRS position reports I believe you will have to be in the analog mode.

D-Star also does not transmit APRS position reports while in digital voice mode. There are "DPRS" gates which interpret received D-Star position reports and inject them into the APRS-IS network so that D-Star position reports are viewable via the Internet like analog APRS position reports. To the best of my knowledge, there is no System Fusion to APRS-IS gateway.

If you want total privacy, you will have to use encrypted land mobile radio service radios, i.e. FCC Part 90. Don't think that the media isn't smart enough to figure out what you are doing.

Yes we are buying the Fusion System. Our ATV and Comm Center have the new FTM400 in them. While the 1DR does not do APRS while digital, it does send GPS data over digital (6.25khz voice and 6.25khz data) this data can be seen on the 1dr and FTM400 and will show the GPS coordinates as well as location and distance from you. This allows us to see where other members are. The GPS data can then be uploaded to computer and viewed on our mapping software. And while I am aware that Encryption is not permitted on Amateur Radio, the C4FM does offer some privacy from the casual listening ears. Once set up, th eplan is to have a deployable Fusion repeater that will be active during searches and training ops
 

WB4CS

Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
900
Location
Northern Alabama
I look forward to hearing how hobby radios work out in a rescue operation where lives are at stake. Hopefully they will perform as well as commercial land mobile radios.
 
S

SARCommCoord

Guest
I look forward to hearing how hobby radios work out in a rescue operation where lives are at stake. Hopefully they will perform as well as commercial land mobile radios.
Well seeing as we have used the VX-8 prior to our upgrade, I think they will work just fine. It seems as if your post has a hint of sarcasm in it. Many teams throughout the US utilize amateur radio. According to my research, not one life was lost due to a SAR teams use of Amateur Radio, with the radios also being IPX7, and with spare batteries etc, and a majotiy of our searches in a wilderness setting ( we are a K9 SAR team, not technical rescue) it works great. Also for a while, we utilized HT1000 and HT600, however, we needed something with more flexibility as well as GPS capability.
 
Last edited:

Heterodyne

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
275
Location
Alberta
If you want total privacy, you will have to use encrypted land mobile radio service radios, i.e. FCC Part 90. Don't think that the media isn't smart enough to figure out what you are doing.
Speaking as a member of the Fourth Estate (who also happens to be s ham,) the media cares little about putting much effort into listening to SAR operations.

What we WOULD care about, however, is knowing that a purportedly professional and state-sanctioned SAR team is using communication equipment not designed, intended or built for the rigors of SAR work in the name of thrift and locking out the media.... Especially if lives are lost.
 
S

SARCommCoord

Guest
Speaking as a member of the Fourth Estate (who also happens to be s ham,) the media cares little about putting much effort into listening to SAR operations.

What we WOULD care about, however, is knowing that a purportedly professional and state-sanctioned SAR team is using communication equipment not designed, intended or built for the rigors of SAR work in the name of thrift and locking out the media.... Especially if lives are lost.
In the name of thrift? This has nothing to do with thrift. This has everything to do with using what works best for us in our situation. Instead of making assumptions, how about doing a little research? The point of this thread was to tell everyone that we have purchased new radios and that we are trying them out.Plain and simple. And have you done SAR work? Do you know the rigors? Do you know that a majority of teams NATIONWIDE use FRS as their standard? Do you know that teams in Florida respond at the request of LE and have an LE officer with them? That we have backup communications and that amateur radio isnt our primary? If you had read my original post, you would have seen that it stated the COMMAND staff uses the amateur radio. We always have more than one type of communication setup. If you dont like the radios we purchased, then so be it. Our team has always had amateur radio as a communication source because it works for our LOCATION. Every team and location is different. And also,the media was very aware of our previous use of FRS radios, as they frequently monitored us.
 

slimbob

Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
22
Location
Alabama
You're in violation of 97.113(a)(3):

(a) No amateur station shall transmit:

(3) Communications in which the station licensee or control operator has a pecuniary interest, including communications on behalf of an employer, with the following exceptions:

(i) A station licensee or control station operator may participate on behalf of an employer in an emergency preparedness or disaster readiness test or drill, limited to the duration and scope of such test or drill, and operational testing immediately prior to such test or drill. Tests or drills that are not government-sponsored are limited to a total time of one hour per week; except that no more than twice in any calendar year, they may be conducted for a period not to exceed 72 hours.

If you're part of "the command staff", you're an employee and it is a violation of Part 97(a)(3).

Additionally, there is a violation of Part 97.113(a)(5):

(5) Communications, on a regular basis, which could reasonably be furnished alternatively through other radio services.

Internal communications for a non-governmental entity can be licensed under Part 90, and many NGOs already have licenses.

One would have to make a strong argument that Part 90 cannot support the communications of a NGO -- and the FCC already has a lot of licenses they have issued to corporations for that very purpose, even across state lines. (Itinerant channels, etc.) Many rescue squads have a 501c3 designation and they are licensed for Part 90 channels and have their own repeaters or use a community repeater provided by a separate organization, even a governmental entity.
 
S

SARCommCoord

Guest
You're in violation of 97.113(a)(3):

(a) No amateur station shall transmit:

(3) Communications in which the station licensee or control operator has a pecuniary interest, including communications on behalf of an employer, with the following exceptions:

(i) A station licensee or control station operator may participate on behalf of an employer in an emergency preparedness or disaster readiness test or drill, limited to the duration and scope of such test or drill, and operational testing immediately prior to such test or drill. Tests or drills that are not government-sponsored are limited to a total time of one hour per week; except that no more than twice in any calendar year, they may be conducted for a period not to exceed 72 hours.

If you're part of "the command staff", you're an employee and it is a violation of Part 97(a)(3).

Additionally, there is a violation of Part 97.113(a)(5):

(5) Communications, on a regular basis, which could reasonably be furnished alternatively through other radio services.

Internal communications for a non-governmental entity can be licensed under Part 90, and many NGOs already have licenses.

One would have to make a strong argument that Part 90 cannot support the communications of a NGO -- and the FCC already has a lot of licenses they have issued to corporations for that very purpose, even across state lines. (Itinerant channels, etc.)
We are a volunteer 501(c)3 Corporation, no one is paid,and therefore not an "employee". Since SAR comms is not on a "regular" basis, and only occurs on average 5 times a year, we are not bound by the provisions in 97.113a(5). Our communications are well within the auspices of what amateur radio is intended for, support of government agencies during an emergency or disaster.
 
S

SARCommCoord

Guest
Please cite a specific case, ruling, or law to support your position.
There is no LAW as Part 97 is not a law enacted by the Supreme Court, it is a RULE.
ARES is a volunteer public safety org. with "Command Staff (being NIMS ICS). Therefore based on your logic, Command staff of your local ARES group would be employees also and in violation of the rule.Also, amateur radio operators who use the local ARES repeater to talk and rag chew would also be in violation of Part 97 as this type of communication can be accomplished based on other means. (i.e email or phone)

§97.111 Authorized transmissions.

(a) An amateur station may transmit the following types of two-way communications:

(1) Transmissions necessary to exchange messages with other stations in the amateur service, except those in any country whose administration has notified the ITU that it objects to such communications. The FCC will issue public notices of current arrangements for international communications.

(2) Transmissions necessary to meet essential communication needs and to facilitate relief actions.


Here is some more examples for you

Ham Radio Helps Out with Mountain Rescue

HAM Radio & Emergency Communications : Red Rock Search and Rescue

Santa Fe Amateur Radio Club - Article by K5PMC

Pulaski County Amateur Radio Search & Rescue Team


And the list goes on... If you have nothing nice to say, dont say it at all. The point of this forum post was to give a review of a new radio. Not for Keyboard Warriors to flame me.

And you are right SOME SAR teams have licenses, but the are attached to other government agencies. In Florida, this is NOT the case. We have access to the State Mutual Aid repeaters, but this is for disasters. We have done research, and have lawyers on the team who have also done research. Based on what we do, and the few times we do it, this is the best system for us. MULTIPLE teams around the US also do this, so what does that tell you?

And more.....

http://www.urfmsi.org/publicservice.html

0:00am Search and Rescue and Ham Radio (Adam Shepherd Room A)
Bud Dixon KG4AFQ of the Jefferson County Search Dog Association presents how they use Amateur Radio to communicate during emergency search and rescues and how they keep track of the dogs and teams using APRS. JCSDA.com offers more information about their volunteer organization, plus a kids area to learn more about search and rescue dogs.
 
Last edited:

Heterodyne

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
275
Location
Alberta
And also,the media was very aware of our previous use of FRS radios, as they frequently monitored us.
...previous use of FRS radios....

.... previous use of FRS radios...

...... previous use of FRS radios......

.......... previous use of FRS radios .......... . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
 

Heterodyne

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
275
Location
Alberta
All that aside, I'm not exactly sure why you posted the original message in the first place if you weren't looking for people to comment on, and possibly criticize your decision.
 
S

SARCommCoord

Guest
...previous use of FRS radios....

.... previous use of FRS radios...

...... previous use of FRS radios......

.......... previous use of FRS radios .......... . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
And amateur radio, as I stated in a previous post. How typical for the media to only comment and reply based on a half truth
 
S

SARCommCoord

Guest
All that aside, I'm not exactly sure why you posted the original message in the first place if you weren't looking for people to comment on, and possibly criticize your decision.
The original post, as I have stated a few times, was to give a review on a radio....... Since you are media, please research the number of times (Inluding NGO County based teams) that use Amateur Radio, and how well it works.
 

Heterodyne

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
275
Location
Alberta
And amateur radio, as I stated in a previous post. How typical for the media to only comment and reply based on a half truth
Just some advice.

You'll be respected a lot more if you don't become unhinged anytime someone questions your decisions. Be prepared to calmly and maturely back up your decisions with facts, not to go off on rants and insult people.

Your rant today reflects extremely poorly on you and your organization.
 
S

SARCommCoord

Guest
Just some advice.

You'll be respected a lot more if you don't become unhinged anytime someone questions your decisions. Be prepared to calmly and maturely back up your decisions with facts, not to go off on rants and insult people.

Your rant today reflects extremely poorly on you and your organization.
I havent become "unhinged". I provided facts and evidence to back up my decision and my statements. I am very blunt and will call it as I see it. What I will not tolerate,however, are people online who attempt to bully and/or force their unresearched opinion on others. We have freedom of speech, but to come online and straight out bash someone because of a decison that I played no part in is ridiculous. In regards to speaking on behalf of my volunteer position, my thoughts are my own. This thread just goes to show how outrageous people have become. This also explains why I rarely post on here..... because you cant post anything without being bashed
 
Last edited:

Heterodyne

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
275
Location
Alberta
The original post, as I have stated a few times, was to give a review on a radio....... Since you are media, please research the number of times (Inluding NGO County based teams) that use Amateur Radio, and how well it works.
And since you seem to be hung up on the fact that I'm a journalist, I'll ask you this:

Are you an official spokesperson for your organization? Are you authorized to speak on behalf of your organization? Are your words here today to be considered an official communication, opinion and/or view reflective of the aims, goals and editorial presence of your organization or its board of directors? Your group, according to your website, appears to be a duly formed corporation. I would assume that the membership of your group answer to a board of directors of some fashion.

If not, your superiors may be concerned if they know what is being said publicly on behalf of their organization.
 
S

SARCommCoord

Guest
And since you seem to be hung up on the fact that I'm a journalist, I'll ask you this:

Are you an official spokesperson for your organization? Are you authorized to speak on behalf of your organization? Are your words here today to be considered an official communication, opinion and/or view reflective of the aims, goals and editorial presence of your organization or its board of directors? Your group, according to your website, appears to be a duly formed corporation. I would assume that the membership of your group answer to a board of directors of some fashion.

If not, your superiors may be concerned if they know what is being said publicly on behalf of their organization.
Since this thread has gotten so out of hand from what I started with, I am requesting this thread to be closed. Its unbelievable the attitudes and behavior of people on here. Almost 300 views and 3 people posted with noting nice to say
 

FFPM571

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Mar 11, 2003
Messages
1,281
Location
Chicago area
I guess when radio professionals and Ham's point out the obvious its always easier to just cry foul..
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top