Yeasu vs. Kenwood vs. Icom

[W4HRD]

Until a recent purchase, all of my VHF, UHF, and HF equipment is manufactured by Yeasu, but recently I purchased an Anytone DMR radio. The one thing I find in common with Yeasu and Anytone is that the operating manuals are poorly written, resulting in a dependance on forums such as this one, and lots of YouTube videos. I'm looking to upgrade my rig to replace my HF unit (Yeasu), and my dual band mobile (also Yeasu) but don't want to suffer the frustration of setups using manuals that were written by someone that couldn't translate into English.

Is documentation from ICOM or Kenwood any better? More importantly though, between Yeasu, Icom, and Kenwood, which has the better gear?

 

[AK9R]

You are triggering one of my pet peeves. It's Yaesu.

In general, I don't care for the manuals for Yaesu radios (my newest is an FT-2D). Disorganized and hard to follow. Sometimes have to look two places to find the complete answer. And, with their later handhelds and mobiles, they publish 3-4 manuals for the radio so you kinda have to know what you're looking for before you open the PDF. But, it's been a long-standing issue, as far as I'm concerned. My first Yaesu radio was an FT-23R that I bought in the late 1980s. The manual for that radio left a lot to be desired, too.

I think Kenwood's manuals are the best of the Japanese "Big 3". Well organized and detailed.

Icom manuals sometimes assume that the reader has more knowledge than they actually have.

As for which has better gear, that usually comes down to available features and user interface.

 

[tweiss3]

I like the products that Yaesu make, but the typical Yaesu menu structure drives me nuts. Even small mode changes are convoluted, and impossible to remember. No Yaesu HF equipment, just FT3D & FTM400.

Icom does produce a basic and an advanced manual, both with photos, and is a bit easier to follow. Again, the menu structure is much simpler/better labeled. I've even consolidated my every day base equipment to 1 menu structure (9700/7300/705).

Kenwood does a good job documenting as well, and navigating the menus/settings is pretty simple. I don't have Kenwood HF equipment, and have way more Kenwood commercial stuff than amateur stuff, but I like what I have (TH-74D & TM-281).

 

[jaspence]

The best solution I have found for manuals is RT Systems. Their software will get you on the air faster than any other method I have seen in 40 years of radio. I even broke down and bought their package for a radio that cost about $60. Not having to mess with cable drivers or finding the correct cable makes the package an even better deal.

 

[k6cpo]

I will agree that Yaesu manuals are not well written, but they are nowhere near as bad as the Chinese manuals. I have a bunch of Yaesu radios and once you get used to the way their manuals are written, it's not that hard to navigate them. The worst one I have encountered so far was the Yaesu FT-470 HT and it didn't take long to get that one sorted out too.

 

[ladn]

I've never owned a Kenwood product, so I can't comment on their manuals, but I agree with others on Yaesu manuals, but I prefer the user interface on my Yaesu radios to that on my Icom radios. Icom manuals are through, but sometimes unnecessarily verbose and complicated.

What I do with the radios I use the most is decipher the user manuals + any additional materials and then create an abridged manual/cheat sheet for the settings I'll use the most. I've found this helps me learn the radio better and I end up with a handy reference.

I keep copies of the full user manuals on my tablet and phone just in case.

 

[MTS2000des]

The big advantage to all three is US based support. All three have US based telephone and email/web support where you can reach a real person not a bot. Alinco has a distributor here in the USA but I don't believe stateside support. The Japanese "big three" are at least committed to supporting their product, unlike the road apple radios from Chinazon that are as-is where is. The "big three" also have US factory service centers that perform in and out of warranty repairs.

One gets what one pays for. Cannot pay for pizza and beer and expect steak and ale.

 

[KK4JUG]

The best solution I have found for manuals is RT Systems. Their software will get you on the air faster than any other method I have seen in 40 years of radio. I even broke down and bought their package for a radio that cost about $60. Not having to mess with cable drivers or finding the correct cable makes the package an even better deal.

I'm a firm believer in RT Systems programs, too. They're intuitive and easy to use.

Just last week, I had to re-download a program for my Yaesu FTM-200. For years, I've used an Acer Aspire netbook for programming purposes. It has RT Systems stuff, Sentinel, CHIRP, etc. installed. The computer is 13 years old but it's finally given up the ghost. I was going to add some frequencies to the Yaesu but instead, the computer did a factory reset on the radio. It happened once before but I chalked it up to a "transient anomaly." Unfortunately, it's apparently the default action now. I brought out one of my low-end HPs, accessed RT Systems, entered the software order # and license # and Voilà! I'm back in business. I wouldn't be without them.

 

[N4DJC]

Once you learn the current Icom menu system…that’s it, plus the newer radios with MicroSD cards make it very easy to upgrade firmware, none of that plug unplug hit three buttons stuff.

Kenwood menus for the D74A are fairly easy, but it was a very complex radio and was difficult to digest initially (like the Uniden digital scanners) the manuals seem to written for English speaking amateurs. I guess one reason is the late Bob Bruninga’s APRS work with Kenwood. I hope they continue to utilize Don Arnold, he’s a really helpful fellow.

 

[KK4JUG]

The learning curve on my Yaesu FTM-200 is steep. You momentarily push any particular button and get a menu. You push that same button for 2 seconds and you get a different menu. Some of those menus have 3 or 4 options but one of them has over a hundred options and most of those options have more options. They do things like program the mic buttons, set the automatic power off, manage DTMF & APRS, etc.

There are 2 manuals: one for basic operation and an "advanced" manual that handles GPS, APRS, digital personal ID, Bluetooth, DTMF, etc. I still keep both manuals in the car, just in case.

 

[mmckenna]

More importantly though, between Yeasu, Icom, and Kenwood, which has the better gear?

That's essentially asking a room full of gearheads which is better: Chevy, Ford or Dodge.
You're lucky no one came to blows.

All three are good, and without looking at the cost, all three are better than the CCR's (I know that's going to piss off a few people)

Each individual ham is going to have their opinion. Some of those opinions will be violently defended. Someone is going to be butthurt.

I do not currently own any amateur gear. When I did, I went through all three companies. Kenwood was always my own personal favorite. Icom and Yaesu were tied. But, remember, this is 20 years ago, and things have changed.
For me, the microphone is the dead giveaway on how they look at usability and durability. It's the one part of a mobile radio that you are going to hold in your hand.

I got tired of replacing Yaesu microphones. I actually got the to point where I sold the Yaesu radios I had because it was getting too expensive replacing microphones (30+ years ago…) Radio worked fine, and I grew comfortable with the menu structure.

I grew tired of Icom and their "do everything/be everything" microphone designs. When a manufacturer tries to make a product do absolutely everything, it does nothing well. Grab the mic wrong when it wasn't locked, and it would send the radio off into some weird menu that was difficult to get out of while driving. Buttons too small and hard to read for mobile use. Their microphones stood up to my use better than Yaesu.

Kenwood microphones were designed off their LMR products. Durable microphone, large/easy to read buttons, limited capability, but all I really needed was push to talk, and they did that well. I never had to replace a Kenwood microphone on any of my ham radios.

All the ham gear is sold and long gone. No dog in this fight.

 

[N4DJC]

The learning curve on my Yaesu FTM-200 is steep. You momentarily push any particular button and get a menu. You push that same button for 2 seconds and you get a different menu. Some of those menus have 3 or 4 options but one of them has over a hundred options and most of those options have more options. They do things like program the mic buttons, set the automatic power off, manage DTMF & APRS, etc.

There are 2 manuals: one for basic operation and an "advanced" manual that handles GPS, APRS, digital personal ID, Bluetooth, DTMF, etc. I still keep both manuals in the car, just in case.

The latest ones are definitely the worst. I’m not a fan of the newer memory architecture.I have an FTM-6000 which is a really well built radio with nice audio, but the memory set up is terrible.

The inability of the ID-52A Icom to assign power levels for each memory (it’s by band) isn’t helpful either. That should be a software or firmware upgrade for the next update.

 

[k6cpo]

The learning curve on my Yaesu FTM-200 is steep. You momentarily push any particular button and get a menu. You push that same button for 2 seconds and you get a different menu. Some of those menus have 3 or 4 options but one of them has over a hundred options and most of those options have more options. They do things like program the mic buttons, set the automatic power off, manage DTMF & APRS, etc.

There are 2 manuals: one for basic operation and an "advanced" manual that handles GPS, APRS, digital personal ID, Bluetooth, DTMF, etc. I still keep both manuals in the car, just in case.

Consider yourself fortunate that there are only two manuals for the FTM-200. My FT1D, FTM-100 and FTM-400 all have four manuals each. There is the general Operating Manual which is included with the radio, then the APRS, WIRES-X and Group Mode (GM) manuals all have to be downloaded from the Yaesu Website. Lots of fun...

 

[AK9R]

There are 2 manuals..

There are 5 manuals for the FTM-200D:

Operating Manual
Advance Manual
GM Manual
Instruction Manual (APRS Edition)
Instruction Manual (WIRES-X Edition)

Also, the WIRES-X Portable Digital Node Function Instruction Manual applies to the FTM-200D.

 

[ladn]

The last time I was in the market for a new mobile was four years ago. I was dismayed and annoyed to find a dearth of FM only dual band mobiles from the Big 3. What I really wanted was a mobile with FM and DMR, but no joy. It's frustrating that DMR is offered on the LMR side, but only DStar or YSF on the hammy side.

I ended up with an Icom 2730A. It's a good radio, but as @mmckenna has said, the Icom mics are annoyingly complex (and they have a hook hanger rather than the industry standard button and clip).

I may have considered the Anytone 578 (and that's a big may), but it's not a split-mount radio.

While I won't buy first production run radios, I am hoping that Kenwood will show a hammy mobile at Dayton that's based on their LMR lineup and offers FM plus a user choice of digital modes via entitlement keys.

AND--the title of this thread evoked this memory from MAD Magazine:

 

[mmckenna]

the Icom mics are annoyingly complex (and they have a hook hanger rather than the industry standard button and clip).

Another annoying feature. Forgot about that until you mentioned it. Kind of a half azzed design. The flimsy stick on/screw on hooks they give you were disappointing.

Why they haven't standardized on the hangup button is interesting. I wonder if it is something left over from the Japanese market.

Kind of a big fan of the MagnetMic hangers, personally. I did take a hang up button off one of the MANY failed Yaesu mics and mounted it on the back of the Icom mic I had.

While I won't buy first production run radios, I am hoping that Kenwood will show a hammy mobile at Dayton that's based on their LMR lineup and offers FM plus a user choice of digital modes via entitlement keys.

Another thing that troubles me.
I think hams have made it pretty clear that DMR is their digital mode of choice. Ya, I know, P25 so you can show off your APX-8000 to your buddies.
The whole brand specific (mostly) digital mode thing is kind of stupid and I'm really surprised the ham manufacturers have not caught on. Kenwood has the DMR thing down on the LMR side, why it hasn't made it over to the ham side is kind of weird.

Meanwhile, the Chinese manufacturers are paying attention and selling lots of DMR capable radios.

 

[MTS2000des]

Kenwood has the DMR thing down on the LMR side, why it hasn't made it over to the ham side is kind of weird.

Meanwhile, the Chinese manufacturers are paying attention and selling lots of DMR capable radios.

I am hoping JVC Kenwood will show off a complete line of newly minted amateur subscribers supporting analog, D-Star and DMR. Sadly, the cheap mentality of today's ham is probably a turnoff. Yes, JVC Kenwood is serious about DMR. NX-5000 series do all three modes (two at a time): P25, DMR, and NXDN- but the typical Bowelturd owner who champions a $50 road apple radio isn't gonna pony up for an NX-5000 subscriber, let alone a KPG-D1N license, and a programming cable. My NX-5320 has DMR and P25 licenses, and as such, average street price is $1200-1400, and this is for a single band radio. Another $150-200 for KPG-D1N, and my KPG-36XM cable was $130.

I am still saying they are done with ham radio. The lowest common denominator doesn't appeal to a company cranking out high quality advanced equipment, with Japanese R&D and labor, to a bunch of old farts who piss and moan about spending money.

Hope I am wrong. I'm not holding my breath. As far as manuals, Kenwood manuals were always well written, I'm looking at the one that came with my TM-721A from 1989. (Radio still works better than spec and doesn't go deaf when near your wireless router. Audio is superb on transmit and carrier is clean as a whistle. But then it retailed for $589 in 1989. With inflation that works out to be $1440 in today's money. Crybaby hams. Good stuff COSTS. Put down the cigarettes and cheap beer, save your pennies, and buy quality.)

 

[mmckenna]

I think an NX-1200 or NX-1300 with full keypad, modified firmware and some hammy software would do the trick.

But I agree. I think there is less and less motive for the big 3 to invest in new VHF and UHF radios. Especially hand held's.

But, apparently you and I are 100% wrong and CCR's are the future of all LMR radios, soon to replace L3H and Motorola. Soon the US Military will be going into battle listening to FM broadcast radio while getting commands from upper echelon and with their flashlights blazing. I've heard it on very good authority that all communications for deep space probes will now be handled by 15 watt Baofengs strapped to the feed horns of the dishes at VLA.

It's true, some guy on the internet told me.

 

[tunnelmot]

Kenwood microphones were designed off their LMR products

And a lot of the radios too. Never had any problems with the single band Kenwoods as they were literally lateral products to their commercial line.
Of my MANY radios, only 3 are actually ham specific. One is for nostalgia, the other is a like new 220 meg Icom from the late 80's, and the last is in my daily driver (along with 3 commercial rigs). I went commercial years back and never regretted it.