Yet another agency gone dark

hitechRadio

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Dec 23, 2010
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Yes, I too recall the times that the Columbine and Deer Creek shooters had scanners listening to Jeffco Public Schools Security and used that information to aid them. That would be a good narritive if it were not for the fact that it did not happen in either case. Here are the facts that you wanted.

As others have said, encryption does not stop a bad actor. Since the folks posting here actually live in the area and know what we are talking about, we can actually cite facts and specific cases involving Jeffco Public Schools. So far it looks like the only one posting opinions and claiming that they are facts are you.

Feel free to provide a counterexample for Jeffco Public Schools and I am sure folks would be more willing to believe your narrative. :)
I never said ENC would stop bad actors. And I never stated facts, it is my opinion, just as everyone else's comments of why they should not go encrypted is based on opinion.

What IF those shooters had been monitoring the school traffic????

My question to you, why should they NOT go encrypted???? Is your listening to them more important than what IF the bad actor listened to them?
 
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William2910

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Land of entrapment
We all know why it is done and used. Why I set up our school that uses 3 different conventional repeater channels E.

While the school staff, security, politics play their end of safety which I cannot agree or disagree with I know why I chose to encrypt ours where I am.
 

kmoe

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Dec 19, 2002
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Maybe the bad guys know where we are because we are in a marked squads.…maybe the bad guys know where we are because we are in a marked uniforms....100% in public view....hmmm. ENC has now been proven to stop projectiles in mid-air….and stop bad guys vehicles in mid spin…so, now we don’t need smooth cars nor under-covers anymore.
 

abqscan

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I never said ENC would stop bad actors. And I never stated facts, it is my opinion, just as everyone else's comments of why they should not go encrypted is based on opinion.

What IF those shooters had been monitoring the school traffic????

My question to you, why should they NOT go encrypted???? Is your listening to them more important than what IF the bad actor listened to them?
WHAT IF a school bus hurt or killed children?
WHAT IF a teacher did something to harm a child?
WHAT IF a person in a position of trust sold drugs at schools?
WHAT IF a school resource officer abuses a student?
WHAT IF teachers are caught cheating on standardized tests?

What if we got rid of everything listed above, because, WHAT IF any of it came true? Oh wait, everything listed above has already happened and we didn’t have the knee jerk reaction to it. Whataboutism is a technique that is used to attempt to discredit or disprove someone’s position by not actually disproving any of their facts. Fact is, when anyone uses whataboutism in an argument, they have already lost.

By blocking out the public from monitoring public safety, it essentially says every person is a bad actor. I believe there is more good in society than bad. Community policing is a buzz word that many LE agencies love to use. The whole idea is for the police to work closely with the public. Last time I checked, it costs LE zero dollars for neighbors to be an extra set of eyes and ears. My position is not that my listening is more important, its that the publics ability to monitor does more good than bad. Imagine a world in which teachers only let students grade their own tests and what ever grade the student gives themselves is what the official record will ever show. This analogy is a perfect example of why being able to monitor LEs dispatch helps hold them accountable.
 

ShyFlyer

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Alright, I think we need to take a deep breath, calm down, and realize that I think we agree more than disagree.

I think we all can agree that "E" isn't going to stop a "Bad Actor," but in some scenarios, it goes a long way to limiting how much of an advantage they have over the "Good Guys." SWAT channels, anyone? Tactical? Most of us can agree, I think, that these sorts of channels being encrypted make a lot of sense.

Police dispatch being in the clear, as pointed out many times, helps promote the idea of transparency of a department. I know from first hand experience, that having dispatch in the clear does little to detract from Officer Safety. As "kmoe" pointed out, the marked units and uniforms do more to make Officers a target of "Bad Actors." Encrypting Dispatch is simply a quick and easy way for people to feel good but provides little if any real benefit.

When we talk of building and event security, as I mentioned before, "Bad Actors" won't be stopped by "E," but depending upon how the organization uses their radios, it can greatly limit how much insider information they have about the operation or how easily they can access such information.

Lets talk about schools. Without the "what about the children!!" hysteria, think about how a school actually uses radios. They're not all the same. I know of one school who used radios to keep tabs on where the puke was to which supply closet the coffee creamer was stored. Helpful to a "Bad Actor?" No. I know of another school who, vastly more sophisticated, had a security team that, amongst other things, conducted a daily alarm check around campus. After about an hour of listening, I knew which doors had alarms and which of those doors didn't alarm properly. It's great that the public could independently verify that the school had an alarm system and it was regularly tested, but not so great that weak points in said system were just blasted out into the universe in real time.

I really don't care if a school encrypts or not. I would rather they do, though, and if I were "king for a day" it would be my first official act. Same if I were a Jail Administrator, Prison Warden, or Chief of Security for ...something. Police Chief or Sheriff? Nope, with regards to dispatch.

There is a time and place for everything. That includes, much to our chagrin, encryption.
 

4436time

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You can try and justify it but it's a misguided attempt at security. If encrypting won't stop the bad actors, which it won't, what's the point? Feeling safe and being safe are two entirely different things. If you want to feel safe, you'd be better off carrying a gun than an encrypted radio.
 

ShyFlyer

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If encrypting won't stop the bad actors, which it won't, what's the point?
As I said...
E" isn't going to stop a "Bad Actor," but in some scenarios, it goes a long way to limiting how much of an advantage they have over the "Good Guys."
Thinking "E" is a "magic bullet" for total safety and security is a misguided. However, it has it's place in certain scenarios.
 

poltergeisty

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I think the big "E" depends on the use of who's using the radio. We all know that in a military, USSS, FBI, US Marshals, ATF, etc scenario they would need encryption due to the nature of their business. As to a school, hell no! If there was an active shooter or something then the police would be dealing with that situation and since most police departments are going encrypted the perp can't hear the channel. However! There's a fine line between encrypting the whole lot and just the tac channels used for such incidents. In the interest of transparency like mentioned, dispatch should or should I say NEEDS to be open.
 
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