York County - HARRIS RF COM - p25 System

[Spleen]

I can see what all the fuss is about...I got a firsthand look at the coverage issues the system has on a recent trip up I-83 to York...it was, eye-opening, to say the least. If I said the coverage was sketchy at best, It'd be because I couldn't think of a better word on short notice that describes it properly. I kept swapping antennas and scanning 500-503 thinking I'd left out a control channel....but no....I just couldn't receive the signal save the occasional punchthrough.

And just this past weekend the problems in the southwest corner were made painfuly obvious as I traveled to Hanover and back via MD-30/PA-94. I sincerely hope Pleasant Hill VFD is back on the VHF radios...

 

[PAFF1952]

I can see what all the fuss is about...I got a firsthand look at the coverage issues the system has on a recent trip up I-83 to York...it was, eye-opening, to say the least. If I said the coverage was sketchy at best, It'd be because I couldn't think of a better word on short notice that describes it properly. I kept swapping antennas and scanning 500-503 thinking I'd left out a control channel....but no....I just couldn't receive the signal save the occasional punchthrough.

And just this past weekend the problems in the southwest corner were made painfuly obvious as I traveled to Hanover and back via MD-30/PA-94. I sincerely hope Pleasant Hill VFD is back on the VHF radios...

Just out of curiosity...Do you have all systems programmed into your scanner or just one?

 

[ocguard]

I can see what all the fuss is about...I got a firsthand look at the coverage issues the system has on a recent trip up I-83 to York...it was, eye-opening, to say the least. If I said the coverage was sketchy at best, It'd be because I couldn't think of a better word on short notice that describes it properly. I kept swapping antennas and scanning 500-503 thinking I'd left out a control channel....but no....I just couldn't receive the signal save the occasional punchthrough.

And just this past weekend the problems in the southwest corner were made painfuly obvious as I traveled to Hanover and back via MD-30/PA-94. I sincerely hope Pleasant Hill VFD is back on the VHF radios...

I'm surprised. The I-83 corridor is typically very strong for me. And I travel is almost every day. The only problem I have is with the transition between the south and central systems, right around the Lake Redman area. A number of antenna sites look right out onto I-83, many of which can be seen from the highway. Shrewsbury tower is actually on the interstate proper. Queen Street tower can be seen from a 5-mile stretch. Pleasureville tower looks out over from Market Street to Emigsville. The Manchester Township and East Manchester Township towers can both be seen from the highway. And Yocumtown and Reesers Summit sites both tower over the highway from their locations. I'd say you have a programming issue.

 

[Spleen]

On the trip north, at least until Shrewsbury, I had these channels in place:

Site002 Ch07 501.18750
Site003 Ch01 500.48750
Site003 Ch03 500.81250
Site003 Ch05 501.06250
Site004 Ch02 502.36250
Site005 Ch01 500.63750
Site016 Ch01 500.31250
Site005 Ch03 500.93750

After Shrewsbury is when I set the PRO-96 to scan 500-503. So, even knowing that a PRO-96 isn't the best receiver in the world on 500MHz, and using an antenna that was cut more for 800MHz than 500MHz (though I did put the telescoping antenna on for a few miles just because), I believe I should have had much better results. Maybe the 83 corridor was having a bad day that day or I drove through in the middle of some sort of test.
I'll give the system a pass on that one. But the reception in the Hanover area was only existent while at the top of the highest hills, and I know of few people in that area using any type of commercial scanner who have good luck with the York County system unless the unit is placed higher than grade or has an external antenna.
The site description says that the West transmitter is in Pigeon Hills, but it must not be very powerful if it can't saturate Hanover at that distance...I can hear Carroll County stronger than York County in most of Hanover at this point....

 

[ocguard]

On the trip north, at least until Shrewsbury, I had these channels in place:

Site002 Ch07 501.18750
Site003 Ch01 500.48750
Site003 Ch03 500.81250
Site003 Ch05 501.06250
Site004 Ch02 502.36250
Site005 Ch01 500.63750
Site016 Ch01 500.31250
Site005 Ch03 500.93750

After Shrewsbury is when I set the PRO-96 to scan 500-503. So, even knowing that a PRO-96 isn't the best receiver in the world on 500MHz, and using an antenna that was cut more for 800MHz than 500MHz (though I did put the telescoping antenna on for a few miles just because), I believe I should have had much better results. Maybe the 83 corridor was having a bad day that day or I drove through in the middle of some sort of test.
I'll give the system a pass on that one. But the reception in the Hanover area was only existent while at the top of the highest hills, and I know of few people in that area using any type of commercial scanner who have good luck with the York County system unless the unit is placed higher than grade or has an external antenna.
The site description says that the West transmitter is in Pigeon Hills, but it must not be very powerful if it can't saturate Hanover at that distance...I can hear Carroll County stronger than York County in most of Hanover at this point....

Well I think I may see your problem. You have entered the control channels listed in the RRDB. However, York's P25 system can cycle ANY channel into the control channel role. Chances are, you didn't have the south system's control channel programmed in and your scanner was tracking either the west or central system from a bit of a distance. It is necessary to enter ALL system frequencies.

I also monitor the system with an 800mhz-tuned antenna, and have no problems. I have also programmed quite a few Pro-96s for folks with excellent results.

The Hanover area is a known disaster. They are supposed to be building two additional towers in that area to fill the gap. Luckily I don't spend any time on that end of the county.

 

[HM1529]

Well I think I may see your problem. You have entered the control channels listed in the RRDB. However, York's P25 system can cycle ANY channel into the control channel role. Chances are, you didn't have the south system's control channel programmed in and your scanner was tracking either the west or central system from a bit of a distance. It is necessary to enter ALL system frequencies.

I also monitor the system with an 800mhz-tuned antenna, and have no problems. I have also programmed quite a few Pro-96s for folks with excellent results.

The Hanover area is a known disaster. They are supposed to be building two additional towers in that area to fill the gap. Luckily I don't spend any time on that end of the county.

I had not yet gotten around to updating the trunked system to designate all freqs as control channels. I did this over the weekend, so nobody else should encounter an issue, unless there are frequencies missing from the trunked system page. I was out that way Saturday after Thanksgiving and was monitoring everything very well from the Upper Allen area.

Ben

 

[Spleen]

I'd thought of the control channel issue that day, which was, as I mentioned, why before I continued north toward York City I set the scanner to scan the 500MHz range York's system falls into...IMHO, the few hits I did get until I turned it off well south of US 30 would barely qualify as "fair" coverage, and nowhere near "good".

So when programming a PRO-96/2096, how best to split up the systems? In this system's case, the 50 channel bank size of the 96's is rather limiting if you also want to have some channels left over for VHF conventional, which PA is still quite full of...assuming you don't want to dedicate an entire bank to, say, two or three counties of VHF...
I can see how one might program a 2096 for firehouse or home use, as long as you can hear the appropriate tower, but if mobile....?

 

[ocguard]

Spleen, I'm not sure what your issue was that day. I make that trip you made everyday with my Pro-106 and have great coverage with the exception of the transition between south and central zones near Lake Redman.

As for setting up the pre-dynamic memory scanners for mobile wide-area scanning in York County, it creates a challenge. Best way for ease of use is one sub-system per bank. Unless you spend alot of time at Peach Bottom Atomic Plant, exclude the Fulton System.

 

[Spleen]

Thanks, I was afraid you were going to say one sub per bank...looks like if I start having to make that trip with any sort of regularity it might be worth checking out the post-Xmas Ebay postings for an old PRO-96 that could be devoted to PA-only travel.

 

[ocguard]

Or just make that big investment to the Pro-106. It is WELL worth the investment. You'll wonder why you hadn't done it sooner!

 

[HM1529]

Or just make that big investment to the Pro-106. It is WELL worth the investment. You'll wonder why you hadn't done it sooner!

Wonderful device, it is.

 

[throck]

Wrong System Type Setting from RR or Win500 for the York County System

I am a new owner of a PSR-500 using Win500 software and after finding the cause of a problem that stopped me dead for about 4 hours, I thought I would share the answer.

Downloading the RR data for York County TSYS objects to Win500 and uploading to the PSR-500 resulted in no scan hits. It looked like the signal strength was up, 3+ bars, but no audio.

To make a long story short, the system Type in the upper Trunking Systems (TSYS objects) came in as P25 MANUAL. After trying many things to get around the no hits problem, I tried changing this Type to P25 Auto and that fixed it.

I am not sure which component of this RR + Software is the source of the problem, but as a beginner it was a stumper. The thing that got me into this area is the PRS-500's owner manual under Troubleshooting, page 96, says under Problem, "The scanner does not receive digital transmission on digital frequencies or trunking systems" and under Possible Cause, "The digital channel or talkgroup is not using APCO-25 digital modulation". At least this got me into the area of modulation type, and experimentation from there got to the solution.

Any thoughts on where the problem actually lives?

 

[throck]

Rose Fire Company Radio ID(s)

I am looking for a way to identify the RR Radio ID for the New Freedom, PA Rose Fire Company, Station 58. I believe it is part of the York County P25 system, but can not identify it from the descriptions supplied by RR.

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[hosehead88]

I am a new owner of a PSR-500 using Win500 software and after finding the cause of a problem that stopped me dead for about 4 hours, I thought I would share the answer.

Downloading the RR data for York County TSYS objects to Win500 and uploading to the PSR-500 resulted in no scan hits. It looked like the signal strength was up, 3+ bars, but no audio.

To make a long story short, the system Type in the upper Trunking Systems (TSYS objects) came in as P25 MANUAL. After trying many things to get around the no hits problem, I tried changing this Type to P25 Auto and that fixed it.

I am not sure which component of this RR + Software is the source of the problem, but as a beginner it was a stumper. The thing that got me into this area is the PRS-500's owner manual under Troubleshooting, page 96, says under Problem, "The scanner does not receive digital transmission on digital frequencies or trunking systems" and under Possible Cause, "The digital channel or talkgroup is not using APCO-25 digital modulation". At least this got me into the area of modulation type, and experimentation from there got to the solution.

Any thoughts on where the problem actually lives?

There may be an issue with the actual data file from the database. I know I have had to tweak a few now and then. Is the setting correct on the software once you load the file, or is it not set to Auto when you download the data?

I switched to another software when I ran into issues with Win500 and Vista, so I don't remember all of the intricacies.

 

[Spleen]

I am looking for a way to identify the RR Radio ID for the New Freedom, PA Rose Fire Company, Station 58. I believe it is part of the York County P25 system, but can not identify it from the descriptions supplied by RR.

Any help would be appreciated.

I don't see any of the volly fire companies listed in the TG list...

I was told Rose's routine comms could be heard on OPS 4, TG 12005, but if you dig up any better info, please share it here...I have no way to test that currently.

 

[dcr_inc]

They are on OPS 5. If they are on a BIG incident they will be on OPS5,12,13.

 

[ocguard]

They are on OPS 5. If they are on a BIG incident they will be on OPS5,12,13.

Dave, I'm curious. If Ops 5 is the main talk group for west units, and Ops 12 and 13 are west firegrounds, why aren't they called Ops West or Ops 5 West, etc.

Remember before radios had alphanumeric displays? You had to know what F-1 was and F-2, and so on. Now we have them and York County had chosen to use the most obscure possible channel descriptions possible. May as well have just titled the Ops talk groups TG-1 and TG-2 and so on.

 

[throck]

There may be an issue with the actual data file from the database. I know I have had to tweak a few now and then. Is the setting correct on the software once you load the file, or is it not set to Auto when you download the data?

I switched to another software when I ran into issues with Win500 and Vista, so I don't remember all of the intricacies.

I believe the incorrect "System Type" of "P25 Manual" is coming from the RR data. Does any of the RR screens show the "System Type" value?

 

[Spleen]

Okay....the nice lady that answered the phone up Rose Fire Company actually had said Ops 4, but her function was (I believe) EMS, so maybe fire uses 5 and EMS 4? Either way, the question is answered--the individual volly companies apparently don't get a dedicated TG...

They are on OPS 5. If they are on a BIG incident they will be on OPS5,12,13.

 

[K3HY]

Input Frequency

If the input frequency for an 800 mhz system is -45 mhz, what is the input frequency of a 500 mhz system?

Nevermind, I figured it out as +3 mhz.