York County - HARRIS RF COM - p25 System

[ocguard]

New fire/EMS talk group deployment

At some point this week, fire and EMS will split (this is ALL still currently on the 500mhz/phase 1 side). I'm not sure what the new fire talk group usage plan is, but EMS will be using talk groups EMS2 and EMS3 for routine responses. EMS2 is the north half of the county, and EMS3 is the south half. I don't know what the geographical divider is, nor which agencies will primarily use which talk groups. This is, reportedly, in preparation/anticipation for a new talk group layout/usage plan when fire and EMS transition to 700mhz. Standard "cart-before-the-horse" YCDES implementation, making agencies' G-ramps (agency-specific ramp on the radio with talk groups specific to that agency for quick/easy access) generally obsolete.

 

[scan-pa]

York County p25 TDMA TG updates have been posted to the DB.

Keep up the great work everyone.

 

[ocguard]

As the transition continues, and different users within the same discipline are using old versus new systems, there are networked patches in place to allow cross-communication. This is a bit confusing, since the new talk group fleet map doesn't exactly line up with the old one. Here's a quick synopsis from the fire/EMS perspective.

500mhz 700mhz
OPS2/3 NORTH FIRE
OPS4/5 SOUTH FIRE
EMS2 NORTH EMS (EMS units that previously used OPS 2/3)
EMS3 SOUTH EMS (EMS units that previously used OPS 4/5)
*note, EMS2 & EMS3 were not used in the system before the transition, but are being used now to allow the split of fire and EMS to work
OPS6/7/8/9 FG N3/4/5/6 respectively
OPS10/11/12/13 FG S3/4/5/6 respectively

All law enforcement, as far as I can tell, are fully transitioned to 700mhz and their 500mhz law enforcement talk groups are depreciated.
PD CITY1 is primary dispatch for city police as well as West York Boro and West Manchester Twp police
PD CITY2 is dispatch for specialized city units, and data (NCIC) for all city units (same as VHF days)
PD NORTH is the same as previous except NYCRPD
PD EAST is same as previous
PD SOUTH is same is previous PD WEST
PD NYCR is Northern York County Regional's exclusive dispatch talk group, as their geographic footprint and call volume (arguably) are large enough to support this
SHERIFF is dispatch for field-deployed sheriff "patrol" units

There are county-wide public safety and events talk groups, which I'm still working to identify. It appears that many (or all), fire departments, EMS agencies, and municipalities may have their own talk groups. Not confirmed.

I thought, THOUGHT, I heard audio of what sounded like the PSP York dispatch channel, but didn't catch the TGID. Could be wrong completely, could've been temporary/testing a patch.

 

[scan-pa]

As we continue to add more and more TDMA TG ID's into the DB, are there any of the Non TDMA TG ID's that are no longer in use and can be deleted or removed?

Please let us know.

Thanks everyone for sending us updated info, there are about 20 more TDMA TG ID's that will be added later today.

 

[Choochoo75]

I just received my Homepatrol-II today to hopefully allow reception of the updated York County Radio system. I updated the database and was expecting to get a flood of traffic, but I really haven't.

I get a lot of traffic on TG 51003, but I also get the same transmissions on my HP-I. Based on some of the earlier threads I suspect that is due to some "patchwork". I've gotten a couple of hits on 51115, and just one hit each on 51005, 51001, and 51128. I'm located on a hill in Windsor Twp. overlooking Windsor Commons Shopping Center, so I wouldn't expect reception to be an issue.

So, my questions are:

1) Any thoughts on why there isn't more traffic? Antenna? Has York County gone all encrypted? Is the HP-2 not a reasonable scanner? Or????

2) Suggestions on a better antenna for the scanner, and one to use as a base antenna.

Thanks,

Clay

 

[Septa3371CSX1]

I just received my Homepatrol-II today to hopefully allow reception of the updated York County Radio system. I updated the database and was expecting to get a flood of traffic, but I really haven't.

I get a lot of traffic on TG 51003, but I also get the same transmissions on my HP-I. Based on some of the earlier threads I suspect that is due to some "patchwork". I've gotten a couple of hits on 51115, and just one hit each on 51005, 51001, and 51128. I'm located on a hill in Windsor Twp. overlooking Windsor Commons Shopping Center, so I wouldn't expect reception to be an issue.

So, my questions are:

1) Any thoughts on why there isn't more traffic? Antenna? Has York County gone all encrypted? Is the HP-2 not a reasonable scanner? Or????

2) Suggestions on a better antenna for the scanner, and one to use as a base antenna.

Thanks,

Clay

1) Sounds like you could be experiencing LSM issues with the simulcast setup in use. Being that you are on a hill it sounds like you could very well be receiving a signal from 2 or more towers in the simulcast cell. You could try moving to another spot in your location and seeing what happens there. From what others are reporting on here it doesn't sound like York went encrypted.

2) For the antenna try using the scanner on the system with the antenna removed and see if you can still receive anything. If yes and it comes in clear as a bell then you'll know you're close enough to one tower. If not then try a directional yagi antenna aimed at the closest system tower and see if that helps any.

If all else fails and you're still suffering from LSM issues there are 2 solutions you can try out - one fairly
inexpensive the other likely in the thousands of dollars.

>>>Get an inexpensive USB radio dongle and download OP25 software. You can then program the system into the software and with the dongle you should be able to monitor the system with no issues.

>>>This one can be expensive and will likely require the help of someone familiar with programming - buy a commercial grade P25 Phase 2 radio (Motorola APX or other 7/800 MHz radio that will work on the system) and have it programmed for non-affiliate scan. You'll hear everything crystal clear and the only reception issues you'll have will be legit dead spots.

 

[Choochoo75]

Joe,

Thanks for the feedback (no pun intended ). It was very strange that at exactly 1800 last night the scanner came to life, and at 0800 this morning traffic seems to have ceased once again. I'm thinking that work may be occurring on the system during those hours, especially since this is a new implementation and probably has issues.

I did order a yagi antenna last night just to see how much improvement there is over the stock antenna on the HP-2 (I've read that it's not the best). It will arrive on Friday, so I'll have something to play with this weekend.

Just as a matter of curiosity, can you provide some additional information on the USB radio dongle and OP25 software. If nothing else, it sounds interesting.

Thanks,

Clay

 

[DeKP]

I purchased a HP-2 last week and it works great for York County. I live in Dillsburg.

 

[ocguard]

Joe,

Thanks for the feedback (no pun intended ). It was very strange that at exactly 1800 last night the scanner came to life, and at 0800 this morning traffic seems to have ceased once again. I'm thinking that work may be occurring on the system during those hours, especially since this is a new implementation and probably has issues.

I did order a yagi antenna last night just to see how much improvement there is over the stock antenna on the HP-2 (I've read that it's not the best). It will arrive on Friday, so I'll have something to play with this weekend.

Just as a matter of curiosity, can you provide some additional information on the USB radio dongle and OP25 software. If nothing else, it sounds interesting.

Thanks,

Clay

You're monitoring VERY close to a tower site (TV49 tower), so (this may sound completely absurd), try removing your antenna and see if it improves your reception. This will allow your scanner to capture signal only from the one close-by tower site, and ignore others, helping to reducing the interference issues caused by simulcast distortion. Also, make sure you're monitoring only one simulcast cell (I have no idea how this is down on an HP model). That way, your scanner isn't wasting time and missing calls while it searches for other simulcast cells.

 

[ocguard]

I just received my Homepatrol-II today to hopefully allow reception of the updated York County Radio system. I updated the database and was expecting to get a flood of traffic, but I really haven't.

I get a lot of traffic on TG 51003, but I also get the same transmissions on my HP-I. Based on some of the earlier threads I suspect that is due to some "patchwork". I've gotten a couple of hits on 51115, and just one hit each on 51005, 51001, and 51128. I'm located on a hill in Windsor Twp. overlooking Windsor Commons Shopping Center, so I wouldn't expect reception to be an issue.

So, my questions are:

1) Any thoughts on why there isn't more traffic? Antenna? Has York County gone all encrypted? Is the HP-2 not a reasonable scanner? Or????

2) Suggestions on a better antenna for the scanner, and one to use as a base antenna.

Thanks,

Clay

This issue with monitoring linear simulcast systems using a consumer scanner is actually counter-intuitive to what you might expect. You're actually getting TOO MUCH signal -- that is to say, you're receiving signals from more than one tower, and they're arriving at different times to your scanner (fractions of a second different). This causes distortion that creates poor audio quality. Commercial radios (ones carried by field responders) have algorithms to reject late-arriving signal, picking only the strongest signal. This technology isn't yet available with consumer scanners. So adding a base antenna will not help, but may actually hurt, the cause.

 

[KB3DCG]

Does anyone have a breakdown on which fire and EMS units are on North and which are on South?

 

[ocguard]

Does anyone have a breakdown on which fire and EMS units are on North and which are on South?

Fire units that previously operated on Ops2 and Ops3 are now on Fire North.
EMS units that previously operated on Ops2 and Ops3 are now on EMS North.
Fire units that previously operated on Ops4 and Ops5 are now on Fire South.
EMS units that previously operated on Ops4 and Ops5 are now on EMS South.

 

[KB3DCG]

Thank you!

 

[KB3DCG]

Has anyone been successful getting the stock PRO-668 to receive the system?

I have programmed it for the system and all I get is silence. My Whistler picks it up just fine.

 

[ocguard]

Has anyone been successful getting the stock PRO-668 to receive the system?

I have programmed it for the system and all I get is silence. My Whistler picks it up just fine.

As far as I'm aware, the Pro-668 is simply the Radio Shack-branded PSR800, which I'm using and it works fine. Are you using software to program it? From where are you listening?

 

[KB3DCG]

Yes, it is essentially the PSR800 or WS1080.

I'm listening in northwestern York City, and yes I am using the software. The RadioShack version of the software doesn't have all of the features that the Whistler software has. I cannot see the control frequencies, for example.

 

[KB3DCG]

Looks like perhaps a previous library update didn't take. Ran another library update on it a few minutes ago, and now its working.

Thanks.

 

[Septa3371CSX1]

Is everything on 700 MHz now?

 

[bjsmcp]

Has the Brogue tower been completed yet? I am experiencing serious dead spots in my travels to Maryland every weekend down Rt. 74 to Delta.

Thanks!!

Bob Sawyer

 

[mlmummert]

Is everything on 700 MHz now?

No.