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Old 07-18-2017, 3:09 PM
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Default Full Spectrum Scan bug?

I just created ("enabled") a Full Spectrum search configuration on my G4 - actually 3....

I created a Full Spectrum Scan that included 769-775 and 851-866 Mhz. I then "copied" that "system" twice and created one that had only 769-775 and another that had 851-866.

In a zone, I created one knob position for the 700 search, one for the 800 search, and one for the 700/800 search.

When running the search using the 800 knob position, it is finding the control channel for a nearby 700 mhz site.... why?
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Old 07-18-2017, 3:37 PM
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Probably an image frequency. Only a guess without knowing the receiver IF.
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Old 07-18-2017, 4:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k3sls View Post
Probably an image frequency. Only a guess without knowing the receiver IF.
G4 is definitely showing a valid 700 CC frequency.
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Old 07-18-2017, 4:43 PM
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What's the difference between the two freqs. in mHz?
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Old 07-19-2017, 7:59 AM
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Ok - now I am seeing the opposite as well -- the knob configuration (700 Mhz search) I'm looking at right now is set to 769-775 searches for control channels. It's stopping and locking on VIPER site 3/7 (Bolivia / 856.6875).

Time to take a "dump" of the programming (raw) and see if I can figure out why this is happening. Perhaps the "copy" function - followed by removing one or the other frequency ranges isn't working properly.

EDIT: radio has now jumped to site 3/63 (Supply / 853.6125) - still supposed to be checking 700 Mhz range....
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Last edited by troymail; 07-19-2017 at 8:41 AM..
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Old 07-19-2017, 8:47 AM
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The unit is designed to receive valid CC info from the site in which it locks on and add it to its internal list. So it can lock on to a valid CC that is not in the Full spectrum scan range or programmed into the unit.
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Old 07-19-2017, 8:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unication_David View Post
The unit is designed to receive valid CC info from the site in which it locks on and add it to its internal list. So it can lock on to a valid CC that is not in the Full spectrum scan range or programmed into the unit.
That really makes no sense at all -- if I program the unit to search specific ranges but the radio thinks it is smarter than me, that's dumb.

Sorry -
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Old 07-19-2017, 8:52 AM
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Its not that its smart it just does what the system tells it to do. If it says we are changing CC to a certain one that is not listed in the scan range or in its list it does what its told.
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Old 07-19-2017, 8:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unication_David View Post
Its not that its smart it just does what the system tells it to do. If it says we are changing CC to a certain one that is not listed in the scan range or in its list it does what its told.
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Old 07-19-2017, 9:44 AM
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I'm "guessing" in full spectrum scan it will use the sites adjacent site list. So if you scan 800, it finds a CC and that site has a 700 adjacent site, it could go there. Just a guess though.
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Old 07-19-2017, 9:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinC View Post
I'm "guessing" in full spectrum scan it will use the sites adjacent site list. So if you scan 800, it finds a CC and that site has a 700 adjacent site, it could go there. Just a guess though.
I think that's a darn good guess. Troymail…look at the Southport site freqs. They are in the range you are seeing.
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Old 07-19-2017, 10:02 AM
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My thinking in the split is to control (limit/restrict) the radio to NOT pick up known CC frequencies -- in this case, it's a full range split (769-775 and 851-866).

For example, if I know there is a valid CC and system on 853.6125, create two ranges that are on both sides but exclude the known frequency -- seems like the radio will ignore what I'm trying to accomplish. The problem of course is that once the radio locks onto a CC, it's near impossible to get it to force the radio to "let it go" and look for something else.
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Old 07-19-2017, 11:11 AM
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Looks like the G4 is trying to be "smarter than me"... I created a fresh, new profile - two frequency ranges - one is 769-775 and the other 851-866. All WACN, SYSID, RFSS and SITE IDs are wildcarded...

I started with knob position 1 - a search of the 769-775 range - found the local site running on 700 mhz as expected. So far so good.

I then switched to knob position 2 - 851-866 search and it found another local site of the same system... fine job.

I then switched back to knob position 1 (700Mhz) and saw it find the expected 700 mhz site again.

I then walked inside the house - still monitor 700 mhz - and it apparently lost the 700 site and is now monitoring the 800 Mhz site - even though I'm switched to position 1 to search for 700 mhz sites....

Weird.
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Old 07-21-2017, 10:11 AM
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It's part of the P25 standard.All P25 radios have a similar feature.For example Harris calls their version Enhanced Control Channel Scan.It allows the radio to find the system data when roaming without any user intervention by using the over the air adjacency tables that are broadcasted by the sites.It's meant to reduce programming the radio manually when WACN, SYSID, RFSS and SITE ID or frequency changes are made and keep the radio connected at all times. Most P25 radios have a preference table that allows you to choose which sites are more preferred, otherwise,the radio will switch to which ever site, based on the adjacency data it's receiving.

Last edited by TDR-94; 07-21-2017 at 10:26 AM..
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Old 07-21-2017, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TDR-94 View Post
It's part of the P25 standard.All P25 radios have a similar feature.For example Harris calls their version Enhanced Control Channel Scan.It allows the radio to find the system data when roaming without any user intervention by using the over the air adjacency tables broadcasted by the sites.It's meant to reduce programming the radio manually when WACN, SYSID, RFSS and SITE ID or frequency changes are made and keep the radio connected at all times. Most P25 radios have a preference table that allows you to choose which sites are more preferred,but if those aren't within the set parameters,the radio will lock onto which ever site it can get data from.
Even if this is fact for the Unications (vs. speculation on how Unication devices really work), it defeats the concept of searches (wildcarded WACN, SYSID, etc. and frequency ranges).

Now, if I programmed a specific WACN, SYSID, etc., it would probably make sense to have it act this way -- but that is not the case.
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Old 07-21-2017, 10:36 AM
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That type of feature isn't meant for 'scanner' type system info searching.It's a P25 standard for autonomous roaming.The sites tell the radio who it's neighbors are and all the associated system data it needs to keep the radio connected.

It basically overrides/ignores what you have programmed, except for the talkgroups and only uses the over the air data being broadcast about the system, from the sites, to tell it what to do.

Last edited by TDR-94; 07-21-2017 at 11:01 AM..
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Old 02-24-2018, 11:11 AM
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Default Site not on RR

Hi Gang,

I am trying to get the Full Spectrum Scan to work - If I am following the posts correctly, I should be able to enable it, and when it goes out of range of the CC's and the sites programmed in- it should automatically find the next best one?

In my case, the sites on RR are accurate, however there is one site that isn't listed - and the portables switch over to that site (Nodine), but I cannot get the pager to do the scan to find it....


If you have any advice, I'd appreciate it! I have enabled "Full Spectrum Scan" - and set it as follows:

Scan Range: 1
Start Freq: 851.00000
End Freq: 859.99900
Step Size: 125000

I did set up another neighboring County to do the scan (as I am out of range here) and it just says "Out of Range"

Thank you!
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Old 02-24-2018, 11:18 AM
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Step Size: 125000 ?

You mean 12500 (default)?

What are the WACN, SysId, RFSS and Site values set to?
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Old 02-24-2018, 11:28 AM
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Maybe I am misunderstanding your comment:

portables switch over to that site (Nodine), but I cannot get the pager to do the scan to find it

The G4/G5 won't switch to a different CC unless the quality of the current one drops off.

You have to program a specifc "system" for a given site and assign that to a knob in order to force the radio to switch to something specific.
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Old 02-24-2018, 1:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by troymail View Post
Step Size: 125000 ?

You mean 12500 (default)?

What are the WACN, SysId, RFSS and Site values set to?
Yes- the default. The WACN: BEE07, the Syst. ID: 40F, and the RFSS and Site are set to their respective values.

Quote:
Originally Posted by troymail View Post
Maybe I am misunderstanding your comment:

portables switch over to that site (Nodine), but I cannot get the pager to do the scan to find it

The G4/G5 won't switch to a different CC unless the quality of the current one drops off.

You have to program a specifc "system" for a given site and assign that to a knob in order to force the radio to switch to something specific.

Doesn't the Full Spectrum work if you are out of range of all towers and it scans the specific range for control channels to lock on to?
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