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Old 02-11-2018, 8:49 AM
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Default Stopped Receiving 2 P25 Talkgroups

So this may or may not be a radio issue but I thought I'd ask here first.

I'm no longer hearing 2 programmed talk-groups. I'm thinking either there is a problem with my G5 or the talk-groups were upgraded to phase 2.

The system is: https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?siteId=21646

It is phase 2, however the FD dispatch talk-groups that I monitor (2753, 2751, 2752) are still phase 1. All 3 talk-groups are programmed in the same knob position and zone (as well as other knob positions).

I've been hearing all 3 for about 6 weeks just fine. In the last 2-3 days, talk-groups 2753 and 2752 have gone silent. Talk-group 2751 is still active and heard.

To verify, my Uniden BC325p2 is still receiving all 3 talk-groups just fine, but it is phase 2 capable (on the chance they just upgraded those 2 talk-groups to phase 2).

I've gone over my programming several times and I don't see any issues.
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Unication G5, BCD325p2, BCD396T, BC796Dx2, BC780XLTx2, AOR AR8000, RS Pro-26
Pro-2042/Opto535/Probe, Pro-2006/Opto456/Probe, Pro-2066, BC9000XLTx2

Last edited by MrRadio; 02-11-2018 at 9:35 AM..
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Old 02-11-2018, 8:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRadio View Post
So this may or may not be a radio issue but I thought I'd ask here first.

I'm no longer hearing a programmed talk-group. I'm thinking either there is a problem with my G5 or the talk-group was upgraded to phase 2.

The system is: https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?siteId=21646

It is phase 2, however the FD dispatch talk-groups that I monitor (2753, 2751, 2752) are still phase 1. All 3 talk-groups are programmed in the same knob position and zone (as well as other knob positions).

I've been hearing all 3 for about 6 weeks just fine. In the last 2-3 days, talk-groups 2753 and 2752 have gone silent. Talk-group 2751 is still active and heard.

To verify, my Uniden BC325p2 is still receiving all 3 talk-groups just fine, but it is phase 2 capable (on the chance they just upgraded those 2 talk-groups to phase 2).

I've gone over my programming several times and I don't see any issues.
99.9%+ likely they are just now using Phase 2...

What does the 325 show when the talkgroup(s) are active?

From the manual:
P25 appears if the channel is receiving digitalized voice in Scan Receive/Hold Modes (Note: this would be Phase 1)
PT0 appears if the channel is receiving Phase II time slot 0 in Scan Receiving/Hold Modes.
PT1 appears if the channel is receiving Phase II time slot 1 in Scan Receiving/Hold Modes.
Note: there is the possibility that if they are now Phase 2 (probably), you might occasionally (but temporarily) hear these or other talkgroups in Phase 1 mode if/when a non-Phase 2 radio is active on any given talkgroup.
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Old 02-11-2018, 9:10 AM
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Without the above information regarding what your 325 is displaying, the only other situation that I can think of is you have multiple sites in your G5 and it is locked on to a site that does not have a radio affiliated to it. Therefore, it may not carry the talkgroup.

Iím thinking itís most likely gone Phase II. One of the agencies I monitor is in the process of upgrading and there are times that my APX carries the talkgroup while my G5 does not. But when an older radio affiliates confirmed by Unitrunker, talkgroup goes back to Phase I so the older XTS subscribers can here it.


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Old 02-11-2018, 9:24 AM
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Thanks Troy & Signal.

I will watch and see what the 325 display shows.

It is a multi-site system, but I only have 1 site per knob position programmed.

If it IS phase 2, I hope we see that upgrade soon.
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Unication G5, BCD325p2, BCD396T, BC796Dx2, BC780XLTx2, AOR AR8000, RS Pro-26
Pro-2042/Opto535/Probe, Pro-2006/Opto456/Probe, Pro-2066, BC9000XLTx2

Last edited by MrRadio; 02-11-2018 at 9:30 AM..
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Old 02-11-2018, 9:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRadio View Post
...I hope we see that upgrade soon.
...we all do!
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Old 02-11-2018, 9:50 AM
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I'm not finding the exact steps (key presses) to bring up the P25 display on the 325.

I'm only seeing the threshold settings.

Can you describe the steps?

Also, I JUST heard traffic on the 2 previously silent talk-groups. Maybe a glitch?
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Unication G5, BCD325p2, BCD396T, BC796Dx2, BC780XLTx2, AOR AR8000, RS Pro-26
Pro-2042/Opto535/Probe, Pro-2006/Opto456/Probe, Pro-2066, BC9000XLTx2
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Old 02-11-2018, 10:35 AM
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After really searching to find the P25 decode display on the 325, I found it.

Unfortunately, 1 transmission showed PT0 and the reply showed PT1.


My G5 is now locked out of hearing my town and surrounding towns FD's until the (working) phase 2 upgrade is released.

This has sort of turned my G5 into a temporary paperweight.
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Unication G5, BCD325p2, BCD396T, BC796Dx2, BC780XLTx2, AOR AR8000, RS Pro-26
Pro-2042/Opto535/Probe, Pro-2006/Opto456/Probe, Pro-2066, BC9000XLTx2
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Old 02-11-2018, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRadio View Post
After really searching to find the P25 decode display on the 325, I found it.

Unfortunately, 1 transmission showed PT0 and the reply showed PT1.


My G5 is now locked out of hearing my town and surrounding towns FD's until the (working) phase 2 upgrade is released.

This has sort of turned my G5 into a temporary paperweight.
I've (in the past more than now) monitor a couple of nearly fully Phase 2 systems but had plenty of Phase 1 systems in the area so it wasn't a total loss (for me). There isn't any Phase 2 near me now but when I travel, I really want Phase 2... so, I am still patiently waiting for that new firmware (probably a bit more patiently than others).
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Old 02-12-2018, 11:48 AM
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I decided to fire up pro96com just to verify the switch to phase 2.

As of right now (Mon 2/12/2018) I can confirm that the system is indeed phase 2

I did sign up about 2 weeks ago on Unication's website to get phase 2 updates, however I have yet to see any type of response.
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Dave D.
(Former 911 dispatcher)
Unication G5, BCD325p2, BCD396T, BC796Dx2, BC780XLTx2, AOR AR8000, RS Pro-26
Pro-2042/Opto535/Probe, Pro-2006/Opto456/Probe, Pro-2066, BC9000XLTx2
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Old 02-12-2018, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRadio View Post
I decided to fire up pro96com just to verify the switch to phase 2.

As of right now (Mon 2/12/2018) I can confirm that the system is indeed phase 2

I did sign up about 2 weeks ago on Unication's website to get phase 2 updates, however I have yet to see any type of response.
Lots of systems are "Phase 2" but operate with many/most/all talkgroups in Phase 1 mode. It provides a fairly easy glide path to switching to Phase 2 at any point in the future.

You'll want to look at individual talkgroups to see if they are Phase 2. Keep in mind that it is possible for the talkgroups (if allowed by the admins) to go back and forth between Phase 1 and Phase 2.
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TRX-2,TRX-1,WS1098,1088x2,1095,1080, PSR1080,PSR500,PRO96
BCD536,436,396T,BC296D,245XLT,600XLT,IV,VX-8R,MD-390
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Old 02-12-2018, 12:16 PM
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Thanks Troy. Yep, I forgot about that.

I'm guessing that there's still some flexibility as I heard 1 or 2 transmissions yesterday on said talk-groups but the rest were missed. Something tells me it's going to be 95% phase 2 from now on though.

I know 2751 is still phase 1 as I'm hearing all of those dispatches.

Can you point me to where in pro96com I can find the talk-group emission to see if it was phase 2?

This is my first time running pro96com.

Thanks.
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(Former 911 dispatcher)
Unication G5, BCD325p2, BCD396T, BC796Dx2, BC780XLTx2, AOR AR8000, RS Pro-26
Pro-2042/Opto535/Probe, Pro-2006/Opto456/Probe, Pro-2066, BC9000XLTx2
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Old 02-12-2018, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRadio View Post
Thanks Troy. Yep, I forgot about that.

I'm guessing that there's still some flexibility as I heard 1 or 2 transmissions yesterday on said talk-groups but the rest were missed. Something tells me it's going to be 95% phase 2 from now on though.

I know 2751 is still phase 1 as I'm hearing all of those dispatches.

Can you point me to where in pro96com I can find the talk-group emission to see if it was phase 2?

This is my first time running pro96com.

Thanks.
Look at the frequency display section.... In a Phase 1 system, you'll only see the frequencies listed once. When Phase 2 is in use, the frequencies will be listed (at least) twice with trailing /0 and /1 notation. If the system is mixed (both Phase 1 and Phase 2) mode, some frequencies will be listed 3 times. Note that on some systems, particularly those where Phase 1 is extremely restricted, you may notice that Phase 1 is limited to only a few system/site frequencies.
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Old 02-12-2018, 12:37 PM
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Ok, I see the /0 and /1 on that screen but it is not showing the talk-groups.

I've gone over the settings several times and I don't see an option to turn the talk-group list (or the other blank lists) on.

Here's the screen.
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Old 02-12-2018, 12:39 PM
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Looks good - you'll only see talkgroups when they are active.

See the "hits" column on the right side -- that's how many times that frequency/split was used during your monitoring by some transmission.

The "grant" logs produced by Pro96Com will show which talkgroups were using Phase 2 while you monitored the system.
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Old 02-12-2018, 12:52 PM
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Ok, I think I have grant logs active and I'll leave it for a few hours.

I didn't want to turn on logging on something and forget to turn it off, filling up my HD.

I do see the talk-groups pop up occasionally so I'll have to try to catch an FD dispatch to confirm. I'm not that hard-core anymore where I would interface a 2nd radio for control/voice. ;-)
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Old 02-12-2018, 12:56 PM
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The logs don't really take up all that much space and they come in handy "offline". In fact, I pulled up some old log data to confirm what I posted (I have lots of this in my head but I like to be sure and not mislead if at all possible).
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Old 02-12-2018, 4:44 PM
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Thanks. I left the log(s) running and here's what I've found. It looks like what you described. I put a blue box around what I'm describing.

Talk-group 2753 freq grant is stamped with a /1 at the end (phase 2)
Talk-group 2752 freq is stamped with a /0 at the end (phase 2)
Talk-group 2751 is stamped with nothing at the end (phase 1 and audible on the G5)

Here's a screenshot for those interested. I'm sure this thread will be of interest to others that have not seen what a trunked system looks like in Pro96com. Especially if like me, their G4 or G5 radio goes silent one day.

I blocked out the RID's as they should probably not be published.

Thanks for all your help Troy!
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Unication G5, BCD325p2, BCD396T, BC796Dx2, BC780XLTx2, AOR AR8000, RS Pro-26
Pro-2042/Opto535/Probe, Pro-2006/Opto456/Probe, Pro-2066, BC9000XLTx2

Last edited by MrRadio; 02-12-2018 at 4:52 PM..
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Old 02-12-2018, 4:52 PM
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Yup - it definitely shows what you are experiencing with a non-Phase 2 radio (the G5). Keep in mind that the talkgroup will bounce from frequency to frequency and slot to slot - just the nature of a trunk system. Also, although 2751 is currently showing as Phase 1 and the others Phase 2, chances are they could easily switch to the other mode at any time without notice (and even back again). It all depends on how the admins have any given talkgroup configured and/or what radio(s) are active on the talkgroup at any given time.

Also - originally, a talkgroup would show up consistently as Phase 1 or Phase 2 across all system sites. As I understand it, newer releases of system software can result in a talkgroup appearing as Phase 1 on one site (because a non-Phase 2 radio is on the talkgroup on that site) and Phase 2 on all other sites at the same time (assuming there is no non-Phase 2 radio on the talkgroup on the other site(s)). Hopefully, this doesn't add too much more confusion - just something to consider.
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