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Will there ever be support for smartnet and smartzone trunking?

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Danny37

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Always wanted to get a G5 but noticed it can't do smartzone or smartnet trunking making it useless for us in NYC to monitor the DOITT trunking system and NJ State Police.

Would it ever be capable of conventional/mixed trunking via smartzone or smartnet?
 

mdsxfire

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Always wanted to get a G5 but noticed it can't do smartzone or smartnet trunking making it useless for us in NYC to monitor the DOITT trunking system and NJ State Police.



Would it ever be capable of conventional/mixed trunking via smartzone or smartnet?



I love the smart net/zone systems, easy to monitor and setup. NJSP system is awesome. I have my PPS software setup for the same NJSP TGs on NJICS that I listen to on their smartzone system programmed, as soon as I get my G5 I will set them side by side to see if I get all the transmissions.
Also read in another thread that the NJSP system will long term be transitioning to p25 phase 2


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mikewazowski

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Smartnet and Smartzone are Motorola proprietary protocols and would most likely require extra licencing fees.
 

troymail

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Doesn't make alot of sense to implement a capability for something that is on it's way out. Unication already has a tremendous market (today) for their pagers and struggles (or just appears to struggle) to keep up with demand for features for it's P25 models. However, some of this may just be limitations of the radio (memory, etc.), market demand from their true customer base (public safety vs. hobby users), and avoiding the addition of features that can cause the responders using these devices from missing critical calls.

Given how the pagers work on simulcast systems, I see Unication as more 'cutting edge' vs. being a legacy capability provider.

If I were them, if anything, instead of "working backwards", I'd be spending my development resources on a more "scanner like" model for P25.....and perhaps even DMR or NXDN (there are public safety systems out there using these modes).

But remember, they aren't in the scanner business (yet?).....
 

ResQguy

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If anyone doesn’t quite get it- Smartnet/zone is not “on its way out”. It is already gone. The “Z” release of those systems was years ago, and anyone still running them is scrounging for spare parts to keep a failing system on the air. It would be like continuing to repair a Betamax player because you just can’t let go of that original copy of “Blade runner” you own.


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troymail

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If anyone doesn’t quite get it- Smartnet/zone is not “on its way out”. It is already gone. The “Z” release of those systems was years ago, and anyone still running them is scrounging for spare parts to keep a failing system on the air. It would be like continuing to repair a Betamax player because you just can’t let go of that original copy of “Blade runner” you own.


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True - gone in the sense it is no longer supported.

However, there are lots of legacy Motorola (and EDACS and...) systems out there in use that aren't going away anytime soon... eventually, yes (everything goes away at some point).
 

ResQguy

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True - gone in the sense it is no longer supported.



However, there are lots of legacy Motorola (and EDACS and...) systems out there in use that aren't going away anytime soon... eventually, yes (everything goes away at some point).



Agreed. And we’ll be hearing about them in some after action report soon I’m sure. Us taxpayers need to support these critical infrastructure upgrades just as strongly as we beg for higher speed inter webs.


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buddrousa

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I understand both points but we have 2 complete spare used systems to support our system for parts for many years. I also understand that it would be nice to have a analog 800 pager it is not feasible for them with us only needing 50 total county wide at this point 32 for my department and 18 for another county department.
 

jim202

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True - gone in the sense it is no longer supported.

However, there are lots of legacy Motorola (and EDACS and...) systems out there in use that aren't going away anytime soon... eventually, yes (everything goes away at some point).

Both Motorola and Harris have long ago told their customers that these systems are no longer supported.

If those customers are dragging their feet on replacing these systems for what ever reason, they are putting those users in a very precarious position. If the system fails for what ever reason, unless they can locate the part from an agency that has decommissioned their old system and warehoused it, they could be looking at a radio system that has gone belly up for the last time.

Replacing a system today can be a 2 year process and the high expenses that goes with it.

The other problem that these agencies are looking at is their current radio towers they are now on. The standard has been changed for the engineering of these towers. The loading and wind speed rating has changed. If a new engineering study has to be done on these existing towers, most of them will not stand up under the new engineering study. This means those towers will have to be replaced. This is going to add another delay to the new radio system going on the air. Plus it adds another big expense to the new radio system.

The best word I can impress upon any agency that is dragging their feet, better have a change of attitude and get their act in motion. I sure would not want to be in the shoes of any public official that has chosen to not go forward on replacing these old radio systems.
 

LEH

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If I were them, if anything, instead of "working backwards", I'd be spending my development resources on a more "scanner like" model for P25.....and perhaps even DMR or NXDN (there are public safety systems out there using these modes).

But remember, they aren't in the scanner business (yet?).....

If we look at the non US market flyers for Unication pagers, they offer NXDN, DMR, and TETRA. Maybe they'll eventually put their NXDN and DMR into US market pagers (or offer a firmware fix if that is what it takes).

G2 / G3 / G4 / G5 SERIES VOICE PAGERS
 

k3sls

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Smartnet and Smartzone are Motorola proprietary protocols and would most likely require extra licencing fees.

Not most likely…they absolutely DO require additional licensing fees…and that is precisely why Unication chose not to include support for legacy systems. Unication would have to pass those fees on to the end user as a unit cost increase. That was stated in a post by David some time ago, although I can't seem to locate it.
 

Danny37

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If anyone doesn’t quite get it- Smartnet/zone is not “on its way out”. It is already gone. The “Z” release of those systems was years ago, and anyone still running them is scrounging for spare parts to keep a failing system on the air. It would be like continuing to repair a Betamax player because you just can’t let go of that original copy of “Blade runner” you own.


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Do have a timeframe for when moto discontinued smartnet/zone?

The reason I ask is because this is a new system for NYC and is probably no more then 10 years old. I know NYC is backwards when they do stuff but I have to wonder why they would introduce 3 new trunking systems in recent years when it's no longer supported by Motorola. I can't see them getting rid of it or upgrading it anytime soon.

I can only guess they may still have a vendor supplying them with parts and such.
 

k3sls

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Do have a timeframe for when moto discontinued smartnet/zone?

The reason I ask is because this is a new system for NYC and is probably no more then 10 years old. I know NYC is backwards when they do stuff but I have to wonder why they would introduce 3 new trunking systems in recent years when it's no longer supported by Motorola. I can't see them getting rid of it or upgrading it anytime soon.

I can only guess they may still have a vendor supplying them with parts and such.

I believe Motorola stopped parts production in 2011 and ended support in 2017. Anybody's guess as to how much spare inventory is out there.

The local system here was in the process of a planned migration to P25 when they lost several Smartnet II controllers prematurely. Without spare parts available, they were forced to migrate several weeks earlier than planned.
 

WX4JCW

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Memphis cannot afford to fix their roads,i doubt they can afford to upgrade their radios
 

mmckenna

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Do have a timeframe for when moto discontinued smartnet/zone?

Many years ago, I don't recall the specifics, but when I dumped my SmartNet system in 2011, it was right on the verge of going out of support, if it wasn't already.

The reason I ask is because this is a new system for NYC and is probably no more then 10 years old. I know NYC is backwards when they do stuff but I have to wonder why they would introduce 3 new trunking systems in recent years when it's no longer supported by Motorola. I can't see them getting rid of it or upgrading it anytime soon.


Could be a number of reasons.
-Big purchasing agencies don't always make the best decisions.
-Motorola loves to lock users into systems long term, so selling a SN/SZ system when it was nearing end of life would more or less ensure they had at least 10 years of support contract and radio sales, although EFJohnson sells SN/SZ compatible radios.
-Motorola also has/had a very clear upgrade path for SN/SZ systems to P25. Likely the base stations that were sold to them were P25 capable, which creates another possible revenue stream.
-Other angle is that the customer may have had SN/SZ compatible radios, so going with that system saved a lot of money.
-Motorola and EFJ still sell radios that will support SmartNet and SmartZone, and probably will for quite a while to come. What's been end-of-lifed is the controllers.

I can only guess they may still have a vendor supplying them with parts and such.

The radios themselves are not an issue. Radios are still actively being sold that support SN/SZ. the APX line of radios will support it, so will the new EFJ radios.

The repeaters themselves are not an issue, either.

It's the controllers. And if the guys who maintain it are good, they can easily replace failed components and keep the system running indefinitely. Might be a good solution if they have a lot of subscriber radios that will support it. Big issue I had with my 6809 controller was the leaking capacitors that etched the circuit board.




As others have said, licensing the protocol from Motorola costs money. The only reason EF Johnson did it was because Motorola needed to satisfy purchasing requirements for some agencies that prohibited sole sourcing equipment. It wasn't because Motorola wanted more competition, it was to meet legal requirements. EF Johnson was happy to get the business. When Kenwood took over EFJ, they were able to keep the SN/SZ licensing on the EFJ branded radios.

I'd agree with the others, I would be surprised if they wasted the money licensing a protocol that is dying off. Pagers are nice, but when there's a flood of older radios that will support SN/SZ, buying someone a new one way pager doesn't make a lot of sense.
And while I know the hobby crowd loves these pagers, there are other suitable scanners that will work. I'm not sure what Unication's marketing plan is for their products.
 

Danny37

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I love the smart net/zone systems, easy to monitor and setup. NJSP system is awesome. I have my PPS software setup for the same NJSP TGs on NJICS that I listen to on their smartzone system programmed, as soon as I get my G5 I will set them side by side to see if I get all the transmissions.
Also read in another thread that the NJSP system will long term be transitioning to p25 phase 2


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I heard that as well, I'm hoping not anytime soon. Phase 2 is bleh.
 
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