Will G5 work on a SmartZone system in migration to p25?

[chrisw8189]

Help me understand the G5

I just came across this device and think it will help me with the problems I have encountered with the RadioShack Pro-668 SCAN. I simply don’t get all the transmissions anymore.

Moving on, I like everything about the G5 from durability, size, testimonials, etc. and with hurricane season approaching I certainly want to have something that will keep me in the loop if something comes my way.

The county I live in is currently migrating from a Motorola Type II SmartZone to a “P25” system. Ill be honest I don’t understand a lot about digital vs analog theory, but I do have a basic understanding of trunking, repeaters, conventional, and TGIDs.

My question is, why would a G5 not work with a smartzone system that is transmitting digital/analog signals? Isn’t p25 just a public standard as I read, rather than a type of transmission/technology in itself? P25 signals still transmit along the same frequencies, don’t they? if anything it would seem to me that if something is capable of receiving P25 it can handle anything less than that standard, is this correct?

Forgive me if mistaking, I made a reasonable effort to figure this out.

 

[KE4ZNR]

Help me understand the G5

I just came across this device and think it will help me with the problems I have encountered with the RadioShack Pro-668 SCAN. I simply don’t get all the transmissions anymore.

Moving on, I like everything about the G5 from durability, size, testimonials, etc. and with hurricane season approaching I certainly want to have something that will keep me in the loop if something comes my way.

The county I live in is currently migrating from a Motorola Type II SmartZone to a “P25” system. Ill be honest I don’t understand a lot about digital vs analog theory, but I do have a basic understanding of trunking, repeaters, conventional, and TGIDs.

My question is, why would a G5 not work with a smartzone system that is transmitting digital/analog signals? Isn’t p25 just a public standard as I read, rather than a type of transmission/technology in itself? P25 signals still transmit along the same frequencies, don’t they? if anything it would seem to me that if something is capable of receiving P25 it can handle anything less than that standard, is this correct?

Forgive me if mistaking, I made a reasonable effort to figure this out.

If the system still has a 3600bps Control Channel (which a mixed analog & digital system would be) then a Unication pager would not work on the system. Unication pagers only work on Pure P25 9600bps Control Channel systems.
We have this issue here in Central NC where the majority of systems use a P25 9600bps CC except for Wake County which still uses a 3600bps CC. Wake is in the process of upgrading their radio system but until they do a Unication Pager is a no-go.
Marshall KE4ZNR

 

[Muxlow]

It does and does not work.
I have a very large multi site type2 system. EMS is analog police is P25 3600. I put all voice channels excluding the control channel as a P25 Conventional system in the pager, put it in a scan list and add the talkgroups i want to listen to and set it to selective call and is working fine. If i go into monitor mode its like having search mode enabled on the scanner, picks up all talkgroups off that site even it its not in the pager.

Down side is on a busy busy system you cant follow a conversation all to well, site i listen to has little other p26 traffic on it so for my needs.. it works good on vhf

 

[IAmSixNine]

Another reason it doesnt work on Type 2 systems aka analog (yes some type 2 systems can have digital channels but they are not the Phase 1 or 2 digital we are used to its P16 compliant not P25) is licensing. To properly trunk track a Type 2 system Unication would have to license and pay MSI for the proprietary software required to do it correctly. Plus its an end of life technology and Motorola no longer supports the old analog systems so dumping money into a technology thats been phased out is a bad business decision.

 

[chrisw8189]

If the system still has a 3600bps Control Channel (which a mixed analog & digital system would be) then a Unication pager would not work on the system. Unication pagers only work on Pure P25 9600bps Control Channel systems.
We have this issue here in Central NC where the majority of systems use a P25 9600bps CC except for Wake County which still uses a 3600bps CC. Wake is in the process of upgrading their radio system but until they do a Unication Pager is a no-go.
Marshall KE4ZNR

Thanks for the responses. How can one know if a system is 3600 or 9600bps? I am going to try and learn a little more about p25. To clarify "bps" is a transfer rate right?

 

[chrisw8189]

Another reason it doesnt work on Type 2 systems aka analog (yes some type 2 systems can have digital channels but they are not the Phase 1 or 2 digital we are used to its P16 compliant not P25) is licensing. To properly trunk track a Type 2 system Unication would have to license and pay MSI for the proprietary software required to do it correctly. Plus its an end of life technology and Motorola no longer supports the old analog systems so dumping money into a technology thats been phased out is a bad business decision.

So type 2 is always analog, and phase 1 or 2 is always digital? I also would like to know how it can be proprietary...is that because the motorola transmissions are encoded in a format that not all radios can decode? Is that why P25 now exists? To limit that sort of proprietary encoding?

I am not a ham radio operator but something is appealing about learning about digital radio.

 

[boatbod]

So type 2 is always analog, and phase 1 or 2 is always digital? I also would like to know how it can be proprietary...is that because the motorola transmissions are encoded in a format that not all radios can decode? Is that why P25 now exists? To limit that sort of proprietary encoding?

I am not a ham radio operator but something is appealing about learning about digital radio.

The control channel is 3600bps with proprietary Motorola messaging vs 9600bps P25 messaging. Similar but different, and not an open published standard like P25.

 

[chrisw8189]

I can't find out if its 3600bps or 9600bps, any way to find out?

Also my system transmits voice in Analog and APCO-25 Common Air Interface, does that mean I will be able to hear it?

 

[KE4ZNR]

I can't find out if its 3600bps or 9600bps, any way to find out?

Also my system transmits voice in Analog and APCO-25 Common Air Interface, does that mean I will be able to hear it?

If there is analog talkgroup activity on the system then the system has a 3600bps control channel. A "true" P25 system with a 9600bps CC will ONLY have digital voice while a 3600bps system can either be analog voice or a mix of analog & digital voice.

Marshall KE4ZNR

 

[Pezking]

You could tell us what system you want to listen to, that would definitely give you an answer and stop the back and forth banter.

 

[chrisw8189]

Thank you Marshall

Pezking, I want to listen to a Motorola SmartZone type 2 in transition to a P25 compliant system without losing half the conversation. The scanner I have doesn't seem to hear everything (IScan).

 

[WB6WQF]

Chris,

A Type II system can have analog or digital channels. A G5 can listen to those channels if you scan the voice channels but it will not trunk. Therefore you will not be able to follow the conversation.

If you tell us the system that you are trying to monitor then you will receive more complete information.

 

[Pezking]

Nobody can help you if they don't know what you are trying to listen to. Just like a mechanic can't help you with a vague description of a noise from a car, you aren't giving anyone any information.

 

[IAmSixNine]

Short quick answer is NO.
IF its a Type 2 analog system it will not trunk track properly.
If its a P25 Phase 1 and/or Phase 2 system yes it will work just fine.

 

[chrisw8189]

I'm sorry. I thought Motorola SmartZone type II was they type of system, I guess you mean what specific system. In that case I am attempting to monitor:

System Name: Broward County Public Services
Location: Broward County, FL
County: Broward
System Type: Motorola Type II SmartZone
System Voice: Analog and APCO-25 Common Air Interface
Last Updated: May 3, 2017, 5:44 am (General text description updated)

Is that what you are looking for?

 

[WB6WQF]

I'm sorry. I thought Motorola SmartZone type II was they type of system, I guess you mean what specific system. In that case I am attempting to monitor:

System Name: Broward County Public Services
Location:Broward County, FL
County:Broward
System Type:Motorola Type II SmartZone
System Voice:Analog and APCO-25 Common Air Interface
Last Updated:May 3, 2017, 5:44 am (General text description updated)

Is that what you are looking for?

Forget the G5 for this system. It won’t work. Either buy a different scanner or wait until the cutover is complete to P25 and then get a G5.

 

[APX8000]

Beginning of 2020 last I heard for Broward. However, you can program the G4/5 to monitor Fort Lauderdale, Coral Springs and Planation, who all have their own sites off the same Core the County will be switching to.


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