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  #321 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2014, 11:03 AM
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It seems the only way to NOT get multipath is to forcibly compromise the scanner's ability to receive ANY of these tower's transmissions (use ATT), and THEN point a medium-gain Yagi at whatever tower gives you the best results. This won't necessarily be directly towards the closest tower, either - it might even be between two, three or even more towers.

It really sounds like monitoring trunked sites like this will be an ever-growing PITA as more and more agencies move off VHF low, VHF high and UHF and go the 500MHz/700Mhz/800MHz route
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  #322 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2014, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LIScanner101 View Post
It seems the only way to NOT get multipath is to forcibly compromise the scanner's ability to receive ANY of these tower's transmissions (use ATT), and THEN point a medium-gain Yagi at whatever tower gives you the best results. This won't necessarily be directly towards the closest tower, either - it might even be between two, three or even more towers.

It really sounds like monitoring trunked sites like this will be an ever-growing PITA as more and more agencies move off VHF low, VHF high and UHF and go the 500MHz/700Mhz/800MHz route
Yeah it sure is a PITA. Would be nice if the scanner manufacturers could engineer the receiver to reject any out-of-sync signals mulit path presents. That's what Motorola does.
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  #323 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2014, 12:34 PM
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Default Good Point On Simulcast

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Originally Posted by LIScanner101 View Post
It seems the only way to NOT get multipath is to forcibly compromise the scanner's ability to receive ANY of these tower's transmissions (use ATT), and THEN point a medium-gain Yagi at whatever tower gives you the best results. This won't necessarily be directly towards the closest tower, either - it might even be between two, three or even more towers.

It really sounds like monitoring trunked sites like this will be an ever-growing PITA as more and more agencies move off VHF low, VHF high and UHF and go the 500MHz/700Mhz/800MHz route
And no $500 consumer grade scanner is going to overcome this issue in difficult cases .. The reality is systems will continue to get more complex and so will the radios needed to hear them.

If the X36 series isn't cutting it for now don't be hopeful that a firmware upgrade or that the new fella on the block offering's (you know who I am talking about ) will do any better, because it will not happen. Your choices are pretty clear and won't be changing in the near future:

1: Try the panel or yagi antenna
2: Move to a new location
3. Buy a commercial p25 radio and have it programmed for the system you want
4: Find another hobby
5. Shut up, live with it, and stop complaining
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  #324 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2014, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by bberns22 View Post
And no $500 consumer grade scanner is going to overcome this issue in difficult cases .. The reality is systems will continue to get more complex and so will the radios needed to hear them.

If the X36 series isn't cutting it for now don't be hopeful that a firmware upgrade or that the new fella on the block offering's (you know who I am talking about ) will do any better, because it will not happen. Your choices are pretty clear and won't be changing in the near future:

1: Try the panel or yagi antenna
2: Move to a new location
3. Buy a commercial p25 radio and have it programmed for the system you want
4: Find another hobby
5. Shut up, live with it, and stop complaining
Ok the expert has spoken...lets move on...
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  #325 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2014, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by bberns22 View Post
And no $500 consumer grade scanner is going to overcome this issue in difficult cases .. The reality is systems will continue to get more complex and so will the radios needed to hear them.

If the X36 series isn't cutting it for now don't be hopeful that a firmware upgrade or that the new fella on the block offering's (you know who I am talking about ) will do any better, because it will not happen. Your choices are pretty clear and won't be changing in the near future:

1: Try the panel or yagi antenna
2: Move to a new location
3. Buy a commercial p25 radio and have it programmed for the system you want
4: Find another hobby
5. Shut up, live with it, and stop complaining
Or another option is listen to a Broadcastify feed and hope someone setup a feed that has what you want. That's what I have been doing for quite a while now. I was hoping the x36's would have improved my situation.
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  #326 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2014, 12:54 PM
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Or another option is listen to a Broadcastify feed and hope someone setup a feed that has what you want. That's what I have been doing for quite a while now. I was hoping the x36's would have improved my situation.
'Yes another good point
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  #327 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2014, 12:56 PM
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Ok the expert has spoken...lets move on...
Sorry you are so miserable with the hobby
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  #328 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2014, 12:59 PM
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Sorry you are so miserable with the hobby
oh I a sure you I'm not sir.....I'm just watching for now....
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  #329 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2014, 1:40 PM
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And no $500 consumer grade scanner is going to overcome this issue in difficult cases
No, perhaps not $500. However, my modified RS PRO-2006 ($65-$75 today; mfg'd circa 1991) works just fine on LSM/CQPSK. Here is a sample: http://forums.radioreference.com/sof...mple-op25.html This sample was captured from a system about 50 miles away - and a RS PRO-106 connected to the same antenna was unable to copy the system at all.

Quote:
1: Try the panel or yagi antenna
2: Move to a new location
3. Buy a commercial p25 radio and have it programmed for the system you want
4: Find another hobby
5. Shut up, live with it, and stop complaining
6. Homebrew your own solution - if you have a respectable parts collection your cost of hardware is $0.00. The necessary software (OP25) is published in source code form as Free Software, i.e., it's also $0.00.

73

Max
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  #330 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2014, 2:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KA1RBI View Post
No, perhaps not $500. However, my modified RS PRO-2006 ($65-$75 today; mfg'd circa 1991) works just fine on LSM/CQPSK. Here is a sample: http://forums.radioreference.com/sof...mple-op25.html This sample was captured from a system about 50 miles away - and a RS PRO-106 connected to the same antenna was unable to copy the system at all.



6. Homebrew your own solution - if you have a respectable parts collection your cost of hardware is $0.00. The necessary software (OP25) is published in source code form as Free Software, i.e., it's also $0.00.

73

Max
Interesting alternative - not sure it would actually perform better with simulcast issues -- Is all decoding done in the software? -- have you run comparisons with newer radios?.
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  #331 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2014, 2:26 PM
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Folks, lets get this thread back on topic.
Please take SDR discussion to the SDR forum.
Anymore off topic posts will be deleted.
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  #332 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2014, 5:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LIScanner101 View Post
It seems the only way to NOT get multipath is to forcibly compromise the scanner's ability to receive ANY of these tower's transmissions (use ATT), and THEN point a medium-gain Yagi at whatever tower gives you the best results. This won't necessarily be directly towards the closest tower, either - it might even be between two, three or even more towers.
Bullseye. That's exactly what I have to do where I am in Brownsburg to receive the Indy simulcast system for my feed.
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  #333 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2014, 5:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whsbuss View Post
Or another option is listen to a Broadcastify feed and hope someone setup a feed that has what you want. That's what I have been doing for quite a while now. I was hoping the x36's would have improved my situation.
With respect to Indy, I'll be feeding it until it's encrypted or I'm forbidden to.
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  #334 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2014, 5:45 PM
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Tell me the type of medium gain yagi do you use? and what type of feed point ..and where I might buy one...thank you...
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  #335 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2014, 9:37 PM
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Sent ya a PM.
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  #336 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2014, 6:19 PM
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Thumbs up Receiving MetroSafe in Louisville

My HP-1 could barely do it at all in downtown Louisville. The '436 that I just received and updated in the last hour or so received LMPD at my house located near Exit 7 in southern Indiana. A remarkable improvement.
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  #337 (permalink)  
Old 02-08-2014, 2:38 PM
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BCD436HP listening to LSM and Phase 2 TDMA...

http://forums.radioreference.com/uni...ml#post2127153
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  #338 (permalink)  
Old 02-09-2014, 8:31 PM
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I was finally able to use the 436 in the Kansas City area today. I used a RadioShack 800 antenna on the way up and then the external vehicle antenna on the same path back. The vehicle antenna is one of the old MON or whatever they are called type that everyone raved about but are now out of production. I don't think it is designed with 800 in mind but it works fairly well.

I am able to receive the Johnson County simulcast cells from my home location approximately 30 miles from the system using an XTS-2500. I am unable to receive them with any scanner, including the 436. However, the 436 did provide much improved reception immediately once I got on the road. Even with a very low signal level it was able to pull out clear audio. Of course it improved as I got closer. I encountered NO MULTIPATH ERROR along the way. The performance was similar to what you would expect from a non simulcast system.

When I got to 135th and Metcalf I switched off the Johnson County towers and focused on the Jackson County Missouri site. Reception was perfect with both antennas. Normally I would get errors and cancellations when trying to receive KC from the Johnson County area but it was perfect. I did not venture in to KC, MO proper and only went as far as about 93rd and Metcalf (a few miles from the down town area of KC) but it worked perfectly the entire way. The PSR-500 would often overload from cell sites but had had none of that with the 436. It was just clean solid audio the entire time.

I was able to receive the Jackson County, MO towers on my way back South down I-35 until they were legitimately beyond what should be expected from a handheld or non optimum external antenna. The performance and reception coverage reminded me of the old EDACS days.

So, I guess what I'm saying is that I do believe there has been a marked improvement with simulcast handling.
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  #339 (permalink)  
Old 02-10-2014, 12:07 PM
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Just got my 436HP today. Here in Albany, Oregon we have a new 700MHz simulcast shared with the neighboring county. My 396XT doesn't decode the control channel at all from my home...period. Signal meter goes from 0 to 5 bars but it can't lock on the control channel. My new 436HP has a solid 5 bars right out of the box and decodes perfectly...just like my PRO-106.
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  #340 (permalink)  
Old 02-10-2014, 12:22 PM
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Just got my 436HP today. Here in Albany, Oregon we have a new 700MHz simulcast shared with the neighboring county. My 396XT doesn't decode the control channel at all from my home...period. Signal meter goes from 0 to 5 bars but it can't lock on the control channel. My new 436HP has a solid 5 bars right out of the box and decodes perfectly...just like my PRO-106.
Sounds like I would leave that radio untouched ,dont update the firmware,if it works,keep it!
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