BCD436HP/BCD536HP: Problems with N9600 conventional? NXDN

[frazpo]

I scan a N4800 trunked system with success. Couldn't be happier. However when I try to scan or sit on a N9600 conventional frequency I do not have much luck. With a TRX1 sitting next to the 436 I am missing a lot of traffic. During a lengthy radio transmission it may not break squelch for 3+ second while the TRX has hit the whole conversation. Hate to compare but this is the only benchmark I can really use. Something is not right. I have the RAN programmed. Any ideas or similar results. I think this system is a type D. It has data transmitted with the voice according to DSD. This causing an issue?

 

[troymail]

"Alpha" (pre Beta) software? I guess that's why it's $30...

You may recall that there were weekly firmware updates for DMR when that was first offered.... If I recall, that went on for at least 8 weeks. I think there have been a few firmware updates for bug fixes since then as well. I suspect you'll see NXDN bug releases in a similar fashion as folks try it and and report issues.

Might not be a bad idea for someone to start a NXDN bug thread and post issues all in one place... I haven't looked - maybe that already exists...

 

[racingfan360]

>It has data transmitted with the voice according to DSD. This causing an issue?
No this is standard for NXDN9600 - it is filling the other 'half' of the voice transmission with data.

Is the NXDN9600 signal a repeater or simplex?
Are you using the same/comparable antenna to the TRX to receive the signal?
Have you got modulation set to NFM, Auto Threshold and 100ms wait time?

Like for like, my 436 is better receiving NXDN9600 than NXDN4800, and the 436 and TRX1 side by side are comparable across conventional NXDN tests that I've run

 

[frazpo]

"Alpha" (pre Beta) software? I guess that's why it's $30...

You may recall that there were weekly firmware updates for DMR when that was first offered.... If I recall, that went on for at least 8 weeks. I think there have been a few firmware updates for bug fixes since then as well. I suspect you'll see NXDN bug releases in a similar fashion as folks try it and and report issues.

Might not be a bad idea for someone to start a NXDN bug thread and post issues all in one place... I haven't looked - maybe that already exists...

Yep your probably right. Something is up with it. I have experimented with programming different ways and it still acts as if it does not want to break squelch. It does at times so I know it's capable and programmed correctly. Like I said N48 trunked system I monitor is rock solid.

 

[frazpo]

>It has data transmitted with the voice according to DSD. This causing an issue?
No this is standard for NXDN9600 - it is filling the other 'half' of the voice transmission with data.

Is the NXDN9600 signal a repeater or simplex?
Are you using the same/comparable antenna to the TRX to receive the signal?
Have you got modulation set to NFM, Auto Threshold and 100ms wait time?

Like for like, my 436 is better receiving NXDN9600 than NXDN4800, and the 436 and TRX1 side by side are comparable across conventional NXDN tests that I've run

Myself and a couple of other scanner hobbyist cannot figure out this system as it is. It seems to have a main channel that transmits voice and frequent data bursts at times. The data will transmit in different intervals of time. May be every couple of minutes or so. So you have this channel but there are also 3-4 other frequencies this dept uses also for the same traffic. It is like a trunk without a control channel. Type-D? At times the same traffic will be on two frequencies at same time? What is this? How do I program it?? I have tried single freq trunk. I can see that it has traffic by watching the SI and I get a N69 at bottom of the screen but no radio traffic. very weird.

 

[racingfan360]

Myself and a couple of other scanner hobbyist cannot figure out this system as it is. It seems to have a main channel that transmits voice and frequent data bursts at times. The data will transmit in different intervals of time. May be every couple of minutes or so. So you have this channel but there are also 3-4 other frequencies this dept uses also for the same traffic. It is like a trunk without a control channel. Type-D? At times the same traffic will be on two frequencies at same time? What is this? How do I program it?? I have tried single freq trunk. I can see that it has traffic by watching the SI and I get a N69 at bottom of the screen but no radio traffic. very weird.

Ok I misunderstood your comment on DSD+ decoding. This sounds like Type-D (see here: System Type & Scale - Solutions | KENWOOD) I assume you are seeing +NXDN96 TB decodes in DSD+?

What happens if you program each frequency into a system/department simply as conventional?

 

[frazpo]

Ok I misunderstood your comment on DSD+ decoding. This sounds like Type-D (see here: System Type & Scale - Solutions | KENWOOD)

What happens if you program each frequency into a system/department simply as conventional?

Same behavior. Misses most of traffic. I have experimented with antennas, Its a good signal anyway-fairly close. I only am scanning 5 frequencies, all of which are NXDN. Seems to really be only using two frequencies though. The TRX beats it everytime and not only that, it may sit silent for 3-4 seconds before breaking squelch. I can tell the N48 trunked system I monitor I get most if not all traffic. Kind of shocked of the poor performance so far os this basic system. This is why I want to make sure its not a user mistake.
No matter the trunk type shouldnt programming it conventional be a way of getting the traffic if you scan the voice channels like you do on a TRX?

 

[frazpo]

I assume you are seeing +NXDN96 TB decodes in DSD+?

Actually it is CB not TB

 

[racingfan360]

Actually it is CB not TB

Ok, in that case it's Conventional not Trunked. It should be programmed as Conventional.

>Its a good signal anyway-fairly close.
Just to check, are you sure it's not overloading the 436? Have you tried adding the attenuator per channel/freq?

 

[frazpo]

Ok, in that case it's Conventional not Trunked. It should be programmed as Conventional.

>Its a good signal anyway-fairly close.
Just to check, are you sure it's not overloading the 436? Have you tried adding the attenuator per channel/freq?

Yes I do have it programmed conventional at this point. I will try att. When it decodes it sounds great. Stopping on the frequency is the battle. It seems even while the freq is on hold it waits way too long to break squelch. Other times it may receive immediately with the TRX.

 

[racingfan360]

Yes I do have it programmed conventional at this point. I will try att. When it decodes it sounds great. Stopping on the frequency is the battle. It seems even while the freq is on hold it waits way too long to break squelch. Other times it may receive immediately with the TRX.

Ok, I'm running out of ideas. The only other things I'd check for are other channels set as priority scan, or Close call running in the background.

EDIT: also check the delay time set on each conventional channel, when scanning.

For comparison, I have run a number of tests with my Kenwood NX transceivers - the TRX and 436 will break squelch at roughly the same time (<1sec). In general I find DSD+ running with a sensitive discrim tapped scanner gives best results, but with obviously more [slight] audio decoding delay vs a real transceiver.

 

[frazpo]

Something is not working. I'll keep experimenting. It is just having a hard time decoding to open squelch or something. I am now back on a N48 trunked system and operating perfectly.

 

[frazpo]

There is definitely a receive issue with N9600 on the 436. For me at least. RSI shows hardly no signal while (trying) to receive 150 mhz N96 digital signal. While it will show full scale if programmed for analog.
I programmed two frequencies both digital and analog in its own system. Scanning only those two frequencies. It stopped consistently on the analog version of both frequencies. I would cycle to scan to catch the digital version and most of the time it would not stop. The times it would stop scanning and stop on the digital frequency the signal indicator was 1-2 bars, Way less then the analog receive. What is going on? Anyone else seeing any difference?

 

[wx5uif]

I'm listening to conventional NX9600 and have nearly no issue comparing it to my NX5800.

 

[frazpo]

I'm listening to conventional NX9600 and have nearly no issue comparing it to my NX5800.

Its odd. Everything else works great as far as receive and NXDN goes. The TRX decodes it very well. I am not sure what is going on.

 

[f4jmk]

I'm seeing the same on conventional NX9600 repeater outputs as frazpo, using a 536
Programmed as conventional with correct RAN.

frazpro, simplex seems to work here, I programmed the repeater inputs and can get a decent decode, try the inputs and see how it works.

No NX trunking near me, there is one NX48 conventional with in range, I will program it and see how it decodes.



Mark

 

[frazpo]

I'm seeing the same on conventional NX9600 repeater outputs as frazpo, using a 536
Programmed as conventional with correct RAN.

frazpro, simplex seems to work here, I programmed the repeater inputs and can get a decent decode, try the inputs and see how it works.

No NX trunking near me, there is one NX48 conventional with in range, I will program it and see how it decodes.
Mark

If you program the repeater frequency analog are you seeing a far better signal on your your display then you are when it is receiving it digital. I've confirmed this. It is basically quiet. Are we seeing the NXDN version of simulcast issues? LOL,, I hope not.

 

[frazpo]

Anyone else having a lag time of N96 conventional frequencies receiving? Good signal, the trx hits it immediately but the 436 either will miss the transmission or miss the first 1-2 seconds of the transmission. This is even when it’s on hold at times. N48 trunking is rock solid on what I’m monitoring. Scanning conventional is worthless compared to TRX. To slow to break squelch for some reason. Any settings suggestions. I’ve been experimenting with some already.


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[f4jmk]

Signals are the same if the scanner passes the repeater output( nx96) vs analog, otherwise it just keeps scanning.

I remember when DSD came out there was a similar issue with the repeater output using different "sync words", maybe that is what we are seeing.

 

[frazpo]

Signals are the same if the scanner passes the repeater output( nx96) vs analog, otherwise it just keeps scanning.

I remember when DSD came out there was a similar issue with the repeater output using different "sync words", maybe that is what we are seeing.

I am seeing more or less the same outcome on a single unrelated conventional frequency. At times it is as reactive as the TRX but not a majority of the time. It is enough to concerned about and wonder if this is a problem. It is really not comparable to the TRX in this mode of scanning. The NX4 trunking is awesome but it is just not wanting to stop on a scan of conventional frequencies. It is like there is an issue in the scanning and decoding process that it doesn't want to stop on the traffic. The depts I am speaking of are easily picked up so this isn't a poor signal issue. Im at a loss, and a bit disappointed.