Trunking ID:search setting in Sentinel

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n0wla

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I just bought 536. New to digital but not scanning.
I noticed in the Sentinel database that in my area (KC) the trunking ID:search is set to off. Set might not be the right....but it indicates its off.? I do not recieve anything that is "trunked" which is why I bought the scanner. Anu thoughts?
 

ofd8001

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ID Search OFF means the scanner will "look" only for those talkgroups that are programmed and have not been Avoided.

ID Search ON means the scanner is looking for talkgroups that have not been programmed in the scanner. It will also look for the programmed talkgroups too. It will ignore any talkgroup that has been Avoided.

You could confirm whether Service Types have been selected and that your location is correctly entered.

A remote possibility is that you have a simulcast system and these can be challenging to monitor.

Are you using the full database or have you created a Favorites List that you are scanning from?
 

n0wla

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Thank you much for your reply ofd8001. Currently full database is loaded.....havent got my head around the "favorites list" yet......and kcmo is a simulcast sys.
 

hiegtx

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Thank you much for your reply ofd8001. Currently full database is loaded.....havent got my head around the "favorites list" yet......and kcmo is a simulcast sys.
After receiving the scanner, did you install Sentinel, and then use it to update the master database? If you did not, or did not then write the updated database to the scanner, you likely have a version that is way out of date. Update the database, then write that to the scanner. You can check the database version on the scanner:
Press the Menu key (lower key on the left side of the scanner)
At the Menu, scroll down to Manage Full Database, then press the E (yes) key to select.
At the next screen, scroll down to Information and select it by again pressing the E key.
The database version's date will show on the display.

By default, when shipped, only the Dispatch service types are enabled for public safety systems. That would Law Dispatch, Fire Dispatch, EMS Dispatch, and Multi-Dispatch. You should also enable the Tac and Talk service types for each of those; i.e. Law Talk, Fire Tac, Multi-Dispatch Talk, etc.

Once you have made sure that you have the updated database in the scanner, and have enabled the talkgroups shown, then you need to also verify that you have your correct location selected. That can be done in Sentinel (then you'd write that to the scanner), or on the scanner itself. To set location on the scanner:
Press the Menu key

Scroll down to Set Your Location, then press E to select.
Scroll to Enter Zip Code & press E
There, you can enter your zip code, and set he range you want. For more about range settings, see [FONT=&quot]How it Works: Location, Location, Location[/FONT]

Once you have the latest database in the scanner, enabled the Service Types you want to hear, and set your current location, Now, try scanning again.
 

hiegtx

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Steve....yes to all of those items
Are you saying that you updated the database in both Sentinel & the scanner, checked & enabled service types of interest, as well as set location & range? If using location, what is the range setting you have entered?

After all that, you still not getting anything? (or not nearly as much as you believe you should?)

Which specific KC system(s) are you trying to monitor? Also, are you using an external antenna, or the telescoping one that came with the scanner?

Your city is off to the southeast of Kansas City. What is the approximate distance, and are a number of hills between you and there?
 

n0wla

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I have updated database and firmware......outside antenna (Diamond 2m/440 18'). Im just a few miles outside KCMO city limits. Range is set to 50 miles. I even tried a KCMO zip code. My understanding is KCMO police and fire are on P25 Phase 1 and or 2 system along with Grandview, Independence, Blue springs, Raytown......my understanding is also that they share the same system. I don't receive anyof them and im located within 5 miles of them all. I do receive MO Highway Patrol on a P25 system. I receive Ham repeaters....air traffic.......RRoad....etc on both sides of the stateline.........so my opinion is my reception abilities are adequate. I've been a Ham for 25 yrs so I understand all that's behind all your questions. Somethings not set right....I just don't know what it is.
 

n0wla

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Metropolitan Area Regional Radio System (MARRS)
System Name:
Metropolitan Area Regional Radio System (MARRS)
Location:
Kansas City Metro Area, MO KS
County:
7 counties

System Type:
Project 25 Phase I

System Voice:
APCO-25 Common Air Interface Exclusive

All Kansas City, Missouri POLICE/FIRE/EMS radio traffic has transitioned to this radio system

Last Updated:
October 27, 2018, 9:35 am (Updated Function Tag assignments for 3 talkgroups(Platte County Mo))
 

hiegtx

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Metropolitan Area Regional Radio System (MARRS)
System Name:
Metropolitan Area Regional Radio System (MARRS)
Location:
Kansas City Metro Area, MO KS
County:
7 counties

System Type:
Project 25 Phase I

System Voice:
APCO-25 Common Air Interface Exclusive

All Kansas City, Missouri POLICE/FIRE/EMS radio traffic has transitioned to this radio system

Last Updated:
October 27, 2018, 9:35 am (Updated Function Tag assignments for 3 talkgroups(Platte County Mo))
That's the same system I was looking at.

When your 536 is scanning that system, how much signal are you getting? Look at the signal bars, top right area of the display.

Also, looking at the sites as shown in the database, you might be getting some distortion from simulcast.

Try using the back of set antenna that came with the scanner, instead of your rooftop antenna. If it is simulcast, perhaps less signal (using the back of set antenna) might make a difference. See if that makes any difference at all, then add a comment on it.

A little later (this evening), I think I'll create a favorites list for that system. You can try it using Sentinel, to see if any change (good or bad).


If still no luck, then you may want to have this conversation moved to the Missouri state forum, so that this is more visible to people in your area.
 

n0wla

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Steve...update of sort.......I did a Discovery of Truncked in that system and had 4 hits from the KCMO PD and Fire. Took a very long time for those 4 and haven't heard them since. When they were in process they were 3 bars each.........so its something but not much.
 

hiegtx

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Steve...update of sort.......I did a Discovery of Truncked in that system and had 4 hits from the KCMO PD and Fire. Took a very long time for those 4 and haven't heard them since. When they were in process they were 3 bars each.........so its something but not much.
Did you try the back of set antenna, as opposed to your external discone?

I'm beginning to think you have simulcast issues. Take a look at the map for the East Jackson County simulcast. See how the transmit sites are scattered out? These are all transmitting the same thing, on the same frequencies. That signal, on a given frequency, arrives at your location in waves, with just enough difference in timing that it hampers the scanners ability to receive & decode the transmissions properly. However, the East Jackson county site may not have the KCMO activity you want.

The map for the main Kansas City simulcast is here. Again, there are multiple locations transmitting the same traffic, which can be a problem. However, look closely at the map. There is one site off to your west. If you used a directional antenna, aimed at it, that would reduce the conflicting signals from other directions.

Attached is a favorites list I put together. I edited it down to just the agencies and sites that I suspect would be in range for you, If there is still too much that does not interest you, you can edit it in Sentinel to either delete the excess, or simply mark them as "Avoid" (locked out).

The file is named as kcmo.hoe.txt. The *.hpe file format is not allowed by the forum. So, I renamed it by adding .txt to it. Save the file to your pc, noting where you saved it. (If you 'save' it as kcmo.hpe, you can skip the next step.)
In Windows Explorer, right click on the kcmo.hpe.txt file and choose 'rename' from the pop-up menu.
Rename it to kcmo.hpe.

Start Sentinel
Click on the drop-down File menu.
On that menu, choose 'Import from hpe file (Favorites list) and click OK.
Sentinel will ask what Favorites list you want to import it to. Choose the 'New favorites list' button at the bottom of the poop-up window.
Give it a name (I'd just use KCMO) and let Sentinel import the file.

You can click on the list to expand it & see what is there either in the main Sentinel window, or in the Favorites list editor.

To load the list in the scanner, first edit your profile. The Profile Editor can be accessed from the drop-down Edit menu, or by clicking on the icon on the second row (top of the Sentinel window) that resembles a pencil over a piece of lined paper. (It's just under the V in the View drop-down menu.

In your profile, click on the Scan Selection tab/ Make sure that the list is selected both to be downloaded to the scanner, as well as be monitored (both of those columns should be On).

Write it to the scanner, and see if there is any improvement. You might also try the back of radio antenna, not extended, and place a baking sheet (like for cookies) beside it so that the antenna is 'facing west to east, with the sheet on the 'north' side to block signals from that direction (the other simulcast sites).
 

ofd8001

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If you suspect simulcast distortion and it is a possibility, if there is a way to bring the scanner to within 1/4 mile of a site and do scanning, that may be definitive. Hearing good audio in that situation would all but confirm simulcast distortion.


You could also try disconnecting your antenna and see what happens. I had a broken feed line on my truck's scanner antenna. Had better reception on the simulcast system.
 

n0wla

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I have plugged in every antenna I own including the "back of set" that came with it with minimal results.......

that said..I have an update......took unit with me to work and in the car it receives all freqs....departments and channels listed in the database!

So somethings arye with my location!

Thanks to all of you for your help and advice!!
 

hiegtx

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I have plugged in every antenna I own including the "back of set" that came with it with minimal results.......

that said..I have an update......took unit with me to work and in the car it receives all freqs....departments and channels listed in the database!

So somethings arye with my location!

Thanks to all of you for your help and advice!!
A problem with your coax or the antenna itself would be the first things to check. But if you are hearing other radio traffic in your area with the same setup, especially if they are some distance away (not 'just around the corner'), that makes antenna or coax less likely.

Squelch setting, as Uniden Support mentioned, should be checked.

Are you near cell towers or other transmit towers (like a tv or radio station)?

I also see that, for whatever reason, my file attachment mentioned in post 13 above did not go through. Attached to his post; instructions for use are above.
 

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ofd8001

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My two cents are this is classic simulcast distortion. Two transmitters are being "heard" by the scanner, but the scanner is having trouble decoding the audio.

Possible solutions:
Yagi antenna pointed at one site
A poorer antenna - sometimes a twisted paper clip works best
Try turning on site antennuation
Tinker with the P25 settings for the sites. Use manual and try different threshold values. This will take time to try numerous combinations to find the sweet spot.
And, unfortunately an SDS100. It is an SDR kind of radio that is much better with simulast.
 

hiegtx

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My two cents are this is classic simulcast distortion. Two transmitters are being "heard" by the scanner, but the scanner is having trouble decoding the audio.

Possible solutions:
Yagi antenna pointed at one site
A poorer antenna - sometimes a twisted paper clip works best
Try turning on site antennuation
Tinker with the P25 settings for the sites. Use manual and try different threshold values. This will take time to try numerous combinations to find the sweet spot.
And, unfortunately an SDS100. It is an SDR kind of radio that is much better with simulast.
I think you are correct. Looking at the site locations for the system, both the Kansas City and East Jackson simulcasts have an array of towers spread across to the north of the OP.
 

n0wla

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Lees Summit, MO
So......had the 536 for a week now and it seems that it is a "line of site" issue. I have noticed that what I receive at home "system" wise is line of site with the tower sites for that system.......while at work I receive what is line of site from that location. I understand line of site.......but usually there is a little wiggle room in that.......doesn't seem to be so with the trunking system stuff.
Love the radio.......disappointed with this aspect!!
 
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