RadioReference on Facebook   RadioReference on Twitter   RadioReference Blog
 

Go Back   The RadioReference.com Forums > Computer Aided Monitoring and Programming > Voice/Control Channel Decoding Software


Voice/Control Channel Decoding Software - For discussion of software applications which decode digital voice formats and trunking control channels. Please use the HF Digital Signals forum for anything below 30MHz.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 05-26-2018, 10:37 AM
Markb's Avatar
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 1,003
Default DSDPlus IDAS NID question

Hello,

I have developed more of an interest in monitoring IDAS lately and I am a little confused on the DSDPlus NID scheme for it.

I have a single-site non-networked system that I'm listening to and my issue has been that when assigning a fictitious NID (1234), DSDPlus gives me an "Invalid or missing network ID" message.
I have to change it to 1234:1.1. What does the :1.1 signify? I see in the notes where it talks about network deconfliction, but that shouldn't be an issue with a single site non-networked system if they all have different NID's.

Thanks,
Mark
Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 05-26-2018, 11:36 AM
mtindor's Avatar
OH/WV DB Admin
  RadioReference Database Admininstrator
Database Admin
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Carroll Co OH / EN90LN
Posts: 6,992
Default

Can you provide specific information regarding what DSDPLus shows in the Event Log window when you are monitoring that IDAS site? I'm talking specifically about what DSDPlus is reading from the datastream and displaying, and not anything that it displays as a result of what you have entered into DSDPlus.* files.

Mike
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 05-26-2018, 12:17 PM
Member
   
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 4,618
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Markb View Post
I have a single-site non-networked system that I'm listening to and my issue has been that when assigning a fictitious NID (1234), DSDPlus gives me an "Invalid or missing network ID" message.
I have to change it to 1234:1.1. What does the :1.1 signify? I see in the notes where it talks about network deconfliction, but that shouldn't be an issue with a single site non-networked system if they all have different NID's.
You can't assign a fictitious NID. The 2.84 docs say that you can add an iDAS NID prefix to a system's network ID. 1234 is a suitable prefix, but it has to be added to the real network ID. You can't have a prefix without having something to prefix it to. The 1.1 is, hopefully, the real NID and site ID for the iDAS system in question. The NXDN standards docs are a free download and for Type D (distributed control channel, aka iDAS), they show a 19-bit NID and an 8-bit site ID for each iDAS site, so I'd say that would be your 1.1


From the docs:

Added optional network ID prefix for iDAS and TIII systems.

These systems do not use unique network IDs. When FMPA/FMP24 are TCP linked to DSD+,
iDAS or TIII systems that broadcast identical network IDs can be differentiated
by adding user-selected network ID prefixes to iDAS/TIII DSDPlus.frequencies records.

DSDPlus.frequencies examples:

TIII, 13, 1.1, 413, 450.0125, 0.0, 0 ; ACME Inc TIII; NID conflict
TIII, 13, 1.1, 117, 462.6000, 0.0, 0 ; Road Runner TIII; NID conflict

TIII, 1:13, 1.1, 413, 450.0125, 0.0, 0 ; ACME Inc TIII; NID conflict resolved
TIII, 2:13, 1.1, 117, 462.6000, 0.0, 0 ; Road Runner TIII; NID conflict resolved


IDAS, 1.1, 1, 1, 450.2250, 0.0, 0 ; ACME Inc iDAS; NID conflict
IDAS, 1.1, 1, 1, 462.4725, 0.0, 0 ; Road Runner iDAS; NID conflict

IDAS, 123:1.1, 1, 1, 450.2250, 0.0, 0 ; ACME Inc iDAS; NID conflict resolved
IDAS, 456:1.1, 1, 1, 462.4725, 0.0, 0 ; Road Runner iDAS; NID conflict resolved

Network ID prefixes should be selected from the range 1 to 4095.
Records in the .networks and .sites files should be edited to match the .frequencies file data.


Note:

Any existing conventional, iDAS or TIII group or radio records that you have added information
to (like alias text) will have to be manually edited to add their pseudo network IDs or prefixes.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 05-27-2018, 12:13 PM
Markb's Avatar
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 1,003
Default

Thanks for the info, guys. I guess where I am a little bit confused is that my understanding was that there was no NID transmitted for a single site IDAS system that I have seen and DSDPlus gives no indication of an NID for this or any other IDAS system I have monitored so far in Southern California. With the exception of trunked P25 and CON+, I have had to assign fictitious NID's.
So 1.1 = Area.Site? In the below case it would be 0.0 (Area=0.Site ID not xmitted)?

Here is an error-riddled sample of one of the systems in question:

Code:
Sync: no sync
Sync:+IDAS DATA        ERR6  IDLE
                       ERR6  IDLE
                             SCCH     ERR1   Area=0  Idle  Ch=1
Sync:+IDAS DATA        ERR9  
                       ERR6  TX_REL         
                             SCCH            Area=0  Idle  Ch=1
Sync: no sync
Sync:+IDAS DATA        ERR6  IDLE
                       ERR12 
                             SCCH     ERR2   Area=0  Idle  Ch=1
Sync:+IDAS DATA        ERR7  
                       ERR4  TX_REL         
                             SCCH            Area=0  Idle  Ch=1
Sync: no sync
Sync:+IDAS DATA        ERR2  IDLE
                       ERR2  IDLE
                             SCCH            Area=0  Idle  Ch=1
Sync:+IDAS DATA        ERR9  
                       ERR11 
                             SCCH     ERR2   Area=0  Idle  Ch=1
Sync: no sync
Sync:+IDAS DATA        ERR5  IDLE
                       ERR3  IDLE
                             SCCH     ERR2   Area=0  Idle  Ch=1
Sync:+IDAS DATA        ERR7  TX_REL         
                       ERR5  TX_REL         
                             SCCH     ERR1   Area=0  Idle  Ch=1
Sync: no sync
Sync:+IDAS DATA        ERR1  IDLE
                       ERR5  IDLE
                             SCCH     ERR1   Area=0  Idle  Ch=1
Sync:+IDAS DATA        ERR9  
                       ERR6  TX_REL         
                             SCCH     ERR2   Area=0  Idle  Ch=1
Sync: no sync
Sync:+IDAS DATA        ERR5  CALL_RESP       Group Call Src=1-47 Tgt=1-3  Free=2
                             SCCH            Area=0  GroupCall  Tgt=1-3  Ch=1
Sync:+IDAS DATA        ERR1  CALL_RESP       Group Call Src=1-47 Tgt=1-3  Free=3
                             SCCH     ERR1   Area=0  GroupCall  Tgt=1-3  Ch=1
Sync:+IDAS DATA        ERR4  CALL_RESP       Group Call Src=1-47 Tgt=1-3  Free=2
                             SCCH            Area=0  GroupCall  Tgt=1-3  Ch=1
Sync:+IDAS DATA        ERR8  CALL_RESP       Group Call Src=1-47 Tgt=1-3  Free=3
Sync:+IDAS DATA        ERR15 
Sync:+IDAS DATA        ERR4  CALL_RESP       Group Call Src=1-47 Tgt=1-3  Free=3
                             SCCH     ERR6   Area=0  GroupCall  Tgt=1-3  Ch=1
Sync:+IDAS DATA        ERR4  VCall  Group  TG=1-3  RID=1-47
                       ERR5  VCall  Group  TG=1-3  RID=1-47
                             SCCH     ERR3   Area=0  GroupCall  Tgt=1-3  Ch=1
Sync:+IDAS VOICE    e:122
Sync:+IDAS VOICE    e:11
Sync:+IDAS VOICE    e:1111
Sync:+IDAS VOICE    e:24r5r6r
Sync:+IDAS VOICE ERR6     e:134r
Sync:+IDAS VOICE    e:24r4r7r
Sync:+IDAS VOICE    e:3133ERR7  GroupCall  TG=1-3  Src=1-47  Ch=1  Free=2,3
Sync:+IDAS VOICE    e:21      SCCH     ERR2   Area=0  GroupCall  Tgt=1-3  Ch=1
Sync:+IDAS VOICE    e:11
Sync:+IDAS VOICE    e:4r6r
Sync:+IDAS VOICE    e:211ERR2  GroupCall  TG=1-3  Src=1-47  Ch=1  Free=2,3
Sync:+IDAS VOICE    e:125r      SCCH     ERR3   Area=0  GroupCall  Tgt=1-3  Ch=1
Sync:+IDAS VOICE    e:5r25r1
Sync:+IDAS VOICE    e:1
Sync:+IDAS VOICE    e:1133
Sync:+IDAS VOICE    e:2211      SCCH     ERR2   Area=0  GroupCall  Tgt=1-3  Ch=1
Sync:+IDAS VOICE ERR8   
Sync:+IDAS VOICE    e:6r22
Sync:+IDAS VOICE    e:5r1      GroupCall  TG=1-3  Src=1-47  Ch=1  Free=2,3
Sync:+IDAS VOICE    e:235r4r
Sync:+IDAS DATA        ERR16 
                       ERR10 
Sync:+IDAS DATA        ERR3  DISC            Group Call Tgt=1-3 Src=1-47 USER DISCONNECT
                       ERR4  
      SCCH     ERR4   Area=0  Free=2,3
Sync:+IDAS DATA        ERR13 
                       ERR16 
Sync: no sync
Sync:+IDAS DATA        ERR1  IDLE
                       ERR2  IDLE
                             SCCH     ERR1   Area=0  Idle  Ch=1
Sync:+IDAS DATA              TX_REL         
                       ERR3  TX_REL         
                             SCCH            Area=0  Idle  Ch=1
Sync: no sync
Sync:+IDAS DATA              IDLE
                       ERR1  IDLE
                             SCCH     ERR1   Area=0  Idle  Ch=1
Sync:+IDAS DATA        ERR1  TX_REL         
                       ERR2  TX_REL         
                             SCCH            Area=0  Idle  Ch=1
Sync: no sync
Sync:+IDAS DATA        ERR15 
                       ERR10 
                             SCCH     ERR4   Area=0  Idle  Ch=1
Sync:+IDAS DATA        ERR10 
                       ERR10 
                             SCCH     ERR5   Area=0  Idle  Ch=1
Sync: no sync
Sync:+IDAS DATA        ERR4  IDLE
                       ERR16 
                             SCCH     ERR1   Area=0  Idle  Ch=1
Sync:+IDAS DATA        ERR7  TX_REL         
                       ERR6  TX_REL         
                             SCCH     ERR1   Area=0  Idle  Ch=1
Sync: no sync
Sync:+IDAS DATA        ERR10 
                       ERR8  
Sync:+IDAS DATA        ERR2  TX_REL         
                       ERR5  TX_REL         
                             SCCH     ERR1   Area=0  Idle  Ch=1
Sync: no sync
Sync:+IDAS DATA        ERR4  IDLE
                       ERR7  IDLE
                             SCCH     ERR5   Area=0  Idle  Ch=1
Sync:+IDAS DATA        ERR1  TX_REL         
                       ERR6  TX_REL         
                             SCCH     ERR5   Area=0  Idle  Ch=1
Sync: no sync
Sync:+IDAS DATA        ERR3  CALL_RESP       Group Call Src=1-47 Tgt=1-3  Free=2
                             SCCH     ERR2   Area=0  GroupCall  Tgt=1-3  Ch=1
Sync:+IDAS DATA        ERR1  CALL_RESP       Group Call Src=1-47 Tgt=1-3  Free=3
                             SCCH     ERR1   Area=0  GroupCall  Tgt=1-3  Ch=1
Sync:+IDAS DATA        ERR3  CALL_RESP       Group Call Src=1-47 Tgt=1-3  Free=2
                             SCCH     ERR4   Area=0  GroupCall  Tgt=1-3  Ch=1
Sync:+IDAS DATA        ERR3  CALL_RESP       Group Call Src=1-47 Tgt=1-3  Free=3
                             SCCH     ERR4   Area=0  GroupCall  Tgt=1-3  Ch=1
Sync:+IDAS DATA        ERR2  CALL_RESP       Group Call Src=1-47 Tgt=1-3  Free=2
                             SCCH     ERR3   Area=0  GroupCall  Tgt=1-3  Ch=1
Sync:+IDAS DATA        ERR7  CALL_RESP       Group Call Src=1-47 Tgt=1-3  Free=3
                             SCCH     ERR3   Area=0  GroupCall  Tgt=1-3  Ch=1
Sync:+IDAS DATA        ERR1  VCall  Group  TG=1-3  RID=1-47
                             VCall  Group  TG=1-3  RID=1-47
                             SCCH     ERR2   Area=0  GroupCall  Tgt=1-3  Ch=1
Sync:+IDAS VOICE    e:4r1
Sync:+IDAS VOICE    e:1
Sync:+IDAS VOICE    e:121ERR4  GroupCall  TG=1-3  Src=1-47  Ch=1  Free=2,3
Sync:+IDAS VOICE    e:11      SCCH     ERR1   Area=0  GroupCall  Tgt=1-3  Ch=1
Sync:+IDAS VOICE    e:1
Sync:+IDAS VOICE    e:31
Sync:+IDAS VOICE    e:122ERR2  GroupCall  TG=1-3  Src=1-47  Ch=1  Free=2,3
Sync:+IDAS VOICE    e:237r4r      SCCH     ERR2   Area=0  GroupCall  Tgt=1-3  Ch=1
Sync:+IDAS VOICE    e:111
Sync:+IDAS VOICE    e:4r6r7r6m
Sync:+IDAS VOICE    e:311ERR4  GroupCall  TG=1-3  Src=1-47  Ch=1  Free=2,3
Sync:+IDAS VOICE    e:2      SCCH     ERR3   Area=0  GroupCall  Tgt=1-3  Ch=1
Sync:+IDAS VOICE    e:24r37r
Sync:+IDAS VOICE    e:14r
Sync:+IDAS VOICE    e:4r14r5rERR8  GroupCall  TG=1-3  Src=1-47  Ch=1  Free=2,3
Sync:+IDAS VOICE    e:111      SCCH     ERR6   Area=0  GroupCall  Tgt=1-3  Ch=1
Sync:+IDAS VOICE    e:115r
Sync:+IDAS VOICE    e:24r4r
Sync:+IDAS VOICE    e:131ERR4  GroupCall  TG=1-3  Src=1-47  Ch=1  Free=2,3
Sync:+IDAS VOICE    e:25r4r3      SCCH     ERR5   Area=0  GroupCall EOT  TG=1-3
Sync:+IDAS DATA        ERR8  
                       ERR7  DISC            Group Call Tgt=1-3 Src=1-47 USER DISCONNECT
                             SCCH     ERR2   Area=0  Free=2,3
Sync:+IDAS DATA        ERR1  DISC            Group Call Tgt=1-3 Src=1-47 USER DISCONNECT
                       ERR4  DISC            Group Call Tgt=1-3 Src=1-47 USER DISCONNECT
                             SCCH            Area=0  Free=2,3
Sync:+IDAS DATA        ERR7  TX_REL          Group Call Tgt=1-3 Src=1-47
                       ERR12 
                             SCCH     ERR6   Area=0  GroupCall EOT  TG=1-3
Sync: no sync
Sync:+IDAS DATA        ERR8  IDLE
                       ERR7  IDLE
                             SCCH     ERR2   Area=0  Idle  Ch=1
Sync:+IDAS DATA        ERR7  TX_REL         
                       ERR2  TX_REL         
                             SCCH            Area=0  Idle  Ch=1
Sync: no sync
Sync:+IDAS DATA        ERR8  IDLE
                       ERR6  IDLE
                             SCCH     ERR1   Area=0  Idle  Ch=1
Sync:+IDAS DATA        ERR15 
                       ERR13 
                             SCCH     ERR7   Area=0  Idle  Ch=1
Sync: no sync
Sync:+NXDN48 TB VOICE     e:6r5r6r7m
Sync:+IDAS DATA        ERR16 
                       ERR10 
Sync:+IDAS DATA        ERR8  TX_REL         
                       ERR11 
                             SCCH     ERR3   Area=0  Idle  Ch=1
Sync: no sync
Sync:+IDAS DATA        ERR15 
                       ERR8  
                             SCCH     ERR5   Area=0  Idle  Ch=1
Sync:+IDAS DATA        ERR15 
                       ERR11 
                             SCCH     ERR3   Area=0  Idle  Ch=1
Sync: no sync
Sync:+IDAS DATA        ERR17 
                       ERR15 
Sync:+IDAS DATA        ERR13 
                       ERR14
Thanks again for the help.
Mark
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 05-28-2018, 8:49 AM
Member
   
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 4,618
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Markb View Post
I guess where I am a little bit confused is that my understanding was that there was no NID transmitted for a single site IDAS system that I have seen and DSDPlus gives no indication of an NID for this or any other IDAS system I have monitored so far in Southern California.
Are these single channel conventional systems or multi-channel trunking systems? No network ID on a trunking system seems rather ghetto.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 05-28-2018, 10:55 AM
Markb's Avatar
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 1,003
Default

This particular one is a 3 channel trunked system. I still don't know 2 of the freqs since it's in the fed band and I have no way to look up the license, but I am assuming that some type of SysID should be sent on any channel in the system.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 05-28-2018, 3:21 PM
Member
   
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 4,618
Default

That's what I would've expected. An iDAS system operator would have to fill us in on that.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 6:03 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
All information here is Copyright 2012 by RadioReference.com LLC and Lindsay C. Blanton III.Ad Management by RedTyger
Copyright 2015 by RadioReference.com LLC Privacy Policy  |  Terms and Conditions