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Old 04-15-2017, 6:56 PM
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Default Seattle Police/SWAT mentions "frequency" Zone 1 / 09

Apparently some social media site received a series of postings from someone that apparently mentioned committing acts of gun violence at a protest in down town Seattle today. I've been listening to Seattle SWAT trying to track him down.

They know where he is now and are converging on his location (which I'm not going to mention just now).

Most of the search has taken place on "Criminal Investigation Services 1," AKA "SWAT One," TGID 4272.

Now they're switching portables to "Zone 1 / Zero Nine."

I can't find that in the database.

I'd like to continue monitoring this operation, but I'm unsure how to figure out what "Zone 1 / Zero Nine" is and thus, how to monitor. I've heard "Zone 1" referenced once before, but once is rare, I didn't care.

I'm pretty sure today's event is over for me, but I'd like to be able to monitor it in the future.

Can someone tell me - or help me figure out - what it is and how to monitor it?


-Jon

PS: I'm using a Uniden BCD436HP.

Last edited by jdcaples; 04-15-2017 at 7:01 PM.. Reason: Scanner Equipment ID
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Old 04-15-2017, 7:26 PM
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I'm guessing it's probably going to be a simplex interop channel.


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Old 04-15-2017, 7:31 PM
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Originally Posted by kd7kdc View Post
I'm guessing it's probably going to be a simplex interop channel.


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Is it possible it's not in the database?

I'm scanning every interop and law talk group available, county wide and I'm hearing nothing related to this operation except the dispatch-requests to have more patrol cars to switch to zone one / zero nine.

-Jon
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Old 04-15-2017, 8:03 PM
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Very possible


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Old 04-15-2017, 8:33 PM
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I don't want to assume that my next step would be to contact PSERN and beg them to review the database and submit updates; but is that the only next step?

-Jon
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Old 04-15-2017, 9:19 PM
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I just heard a request for patrol to switch from "North Air" (Dispatch North, TGID 3280) and join detectives on "RTCC."

I guess this effort

SPD Announces Agile Policing Strategy, Unveils Real-Time Crime Center

has a dedicated PSERN resource.

-Jon
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Old 04-16-2017, 12:43 AM
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What are you guys smoking?
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Old 04-16-2017, 12:43 AM
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A couple of fine points-

A- CIS is not Criminal Investigation Service.

B- CIS and SWAT are in different divisions.

C- SWAT-1 is P25 and encrypted.

D- PSERN is not going to update the RR database.

E- PSERN is not on the air yet.
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Old 04-16-2017, 12:56 AM
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The talk group names I cited are names used by operators, which means "Criminal Investigation Services 1," is what radio users call "SWAT 1." "Criminal Investigation Services 1" is actually canonically TGID 4272."

That radio users call it a "frequency" and call that they call "frequency" "SWAT 1" (in the database TGID 4272) is not something I am interpreting; I'm hearing them call all TGID 4272 "SWAT 1."

So yes, CIS and SWAT are different. I'm not saying they're the same.

I don't confuse radio user nicknames with actual departmental assignments. Tactical North, TGID 3280" is what operators call "Northwest." The RR database doesn't include "colloquials." I include them in case readers of this thread are listening to the radio traffic I'm hearing.

SWAT 1 P25 isn't used as far as I can tell. I hear no noise on SWAT 1 P25.

PSERN is on the air.

PSERN is in the process of upgrading to an encryption-enabled system.

The new system not up and running yet, but PSERN is the currently operating org for the currently used Puget Sound Emergency Radio Network, which I listen to on a daily basis.

-Jon

Last edited by jdcaples; 04-16-2017 at 1:04 AM..
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Old 04-16-2017, 2:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdcaples View Post
The talk group names I cited are names used by operators, which means "Criminal Investigation Services 1," is what radio users call "SWAT 1." "Criminal Investigation Services 1" is actually canonically TGID 4272."

That radio users call it a "frequency" and call that they call "frequency" "SWAT 1" (in the database TGID 4272) is not something I am interpreting; I'm hearing them call all TGID 4272 "SWAT 1."

So yes, CIS and SWAT are different. I'm not saying they're the same.

I don't confuse radio user nicknames with actual departmental assignments. Tactical North, TGID 3280" is what operators call "Northwest." The RR database doesn't include "colloquials." I include them in case readers of this thread are listening to the radio traffic I'm hearing.

SWAT 1 P25 isn't used as far as I can tell. I hear no noise on SWAT 1 P25.

PSERN is on the air.

PSERN is in the process of upgrading to an encryption-enabled system.

The new system not up and running yet, but PSERN is the currently operating org for the currently used Puget Sound Emergency Radio Network, which I listen to on a daily basis.
I'll get the City to reprogram my portable to match what you've stated, thanks for the heads-up. I guess maybe I'm just reading the display incorrectly.

Interesting to learn about PSERN. I had coffee with their senior manager yesterday. He presents a slightly different view.
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Old 04-16-2017, 2:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdcaples View Post
PSERN is on the air. PSERN is in the process of upgrading to an encryption-enabled system.

The new system not up and running yet, but PSERN is the currently operating org for the currently used Puget Sound Emergency Radio Network, which I listen to on a daily basis.
Huh?

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Originally Posted by Wilrobnson View Post
Interesting to learn about PSERN. I had coffee with their senior manager yesterday. He presents a slightly different view.
You shouldn't date radio managers... they are kind of weird.
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Old 04-16-2017, 2:50 AM
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Originally Posted by im800mhz View Post
What are you guys smoking?
Well, this IS Seattle... there's more pot than kettle in this area.
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Old 04-16-2017, 3:03 AM
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You shouldn't date radio managers... they are kind of weird.
I'll tell Stella you said that.
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Old 04-16-2017, 2:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Wilrobnson View Post
I'll get the City to reprogram my portable to match what you've stated, thanks for the heads-up. I guess maybe I'm just reading the display incorrectly.

Interesting to learn about PSERN. I had coffee with their senior manager yesterday. He presents a slightly different view.
Well, officers and other operators still call talk groups "frequencies," as if nothing's changed since the advent of two-way radios. I'm not surprised a senior manager presents a different view.

No one transmitting on Seattle Police Department talk groups calls any talk group by its RR database name.

Try finding Ptac in the database.....

-Jon
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Old 04-16-2017, 3:52 PM
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Originally Posted by jdcaples View Post
Well, officers and other operators still call talk groups "frequencies," as if nothing's changed since the advent of two-way radios. I'm not surprised a senior manager presents a different view.

No one transmitting on Seattle Police Department talk groups calls any talk group by its RR database name.

Try finding Ptac in the database.
I've suddenly figured out the problem here.

Back in 1995 or so, a guy named Bruce did a public records request to King County and the City of Seattle for all of their talkgroup information. This being before 2001, and the City/County not having RCW 42.56.420 to hide behind, they released the entire master talk group list to him, which he promptly sold for something like five dollars a copy.

Bruce, as I understand, purposely mislabeled a few talkgroups to detect copy write infringement and, not having any idea what others were (they were listed by their internal acronyms), simply made up reasonable sounding names.

That list, including the intentional errors and wholly made up talkgroups, were then transcribed onto the newly-burgeoning web by multiple people who figured no one should ever have to pay for radio information again.

Many of those errors, intentional and otherwise, persist to this day, 22 years later. I mean, when was the Kingdome demolished? 17 years ago? We still have the RR DB calling talkgroups 'Kingdome"...

Also, a great many of the talkgroup (and frequency) names in the RR 'database' are made up as well, based on usage, real or assumed. Thus, 'MUNI COURT' that appears on my radio display becomes 'STLCRTSECRTY' when someone pays to download the talkgroup info from here to their scanner.

PSERN, Seattle, NorCom, ValleyComm, etc, have absolutely nothing to do with the RR database in any official capacity, and never will. 99% of public service agencies would never release radio information, especially to a private business that is going to resell it. Even agencies that have fully or mostly encrypted their operations will not release this information.
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Old 04-16-2017, 4:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Wilrobnson View Post
I've suddenly figured out the problem here.

Back in 1995 or so, a guy named Bruce did a public records request to King County and the City of Seattle for all of their talkgroup information. This being before 2001, and the City/County not having RCW 42.56.420 to hide behind, they released the entire master talk group list to him, which he promptly sold for something like five dollars a copy.

Bruce, as I understand, purposely mislabeled a few talkgroups to detect copy write infringement and, not having any idea what others were (they were listed by their internal acronyms), simply made up reasonable sounding names.

<snip>

PSERN, Seattle, NorCom, ValleyComm, etc, have absolutely nothing to do with the RR database in any official capacity, and never will. 99% of public service agencies would never release radio information, especially to a private business that is going to resell it. Even agencies that have fully or mostly encrypted their operations will not release this information.
Thank you! That explains a lot.

So the answer to my original question about configuring my scanner to pick up transmissions on Zone 1 / 09 is, "you can't configure your scanner to pick up transmissions on Zone 1 / 09."

True?

-Jon
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Old 04-16-2017, 4:19 PM
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So what you're saying is don't rely on a 15+ year old database? And don't assume talkgroup numbers and names don't change? And instead of relying on someone else's outdated information, you should research it yourself? Shocking.
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Old 04-16-2017, 4:25 PM
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Thank you! That explains a lot.

So the answer to my original question about configuring my scanner to pick up transmissions on Zone 1 / 09 is, "you can't configure your scanner to pick up transmissions on Zone 1 / 09."

True?

-Jon
No. Unless it's an encrypted talkgroup/simplex freq.

BTW, Z1/9 should be Tac-3.
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Old 04-16-2017, 4:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Wilrobnson View Post
No. Unless it's an encrypted talkgroup/simplex freq.

BTW, Z1/9 should be Tac-3.

Tactical 3, TGID 3504 is referred to "Tac 3" by SPD radio operators, not Z1/9. Additionally, while SWAT was looking for crazy guy (their name for him, not mine), I was scanning every SPD talk group, avoiding only Data, East, West and South dispatch and Tac 2 which was sporting even security coordination at the time.

I didn't hear any traffic on tac 3 when they switched to Z1/9.

So what is the process to configure undocumented talk groups or simplex frequencies, or rather, what's the process to identify undocumented, unencrypted talk groups or simplex frequencies?

-Jon

Last edited by jdcaples; 04-16-2017 at 4:52 PM..
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Old 04-16-2017, 5:57 PM
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Do a wildcard scan, if it's not to late now.

Dennis
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