Driver Signing Certificates On Sale -- Please Eliminate Installation Issues

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AggieCon

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Earlier this week, we had a thread going about helping with a TRX-1 and covered driver issues, Windows 10, etc.

Anyways, I came across a special on GoDaddy: https://www.godaddy.com/web-security/code-signing-certificate

Their driver signing certificate is on sale for 14% off. For just $170/scanner, Whistler could make 80%+ of the scanner installation and update problems we face go away. And no more special start up setting that leaves our computers vulnerable.

Our Driver Signing Certificates:

  • Approve your software for use on Windows® operating systems. A Driver Signing Certificate is required for all hardware drivers, Windows Vista or later.
  • Authenticate the source and integrity of your hardware driver code.
  • Eliminate "Unidentified Publisher" warnings.
  • Inspire confidence from users by showing them your code is trustworthy.
  • Digitally sign software objects, device drivers, configuration files, macros, and more.
I was going to post this to the thread I referenced above, but I am unable to find it.
 

SCPD

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This is a joke right .. no one is going to pay 10 cents more for their scanners, especially me where I pay 60% more here than in the US.

Besides .. it is not hard at all to get them to work. Besides it is not a signed driver issue anyways.
 

AggieCon

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Do I really need to list several dozen threads?

I am glad it's easy for you. It's not easy for everyone.

This has nothing to do with the price. Prices are set by supply and demand. Prices are not set by raw inputs. However, raw inputs cost can convince the supplier to stop selling the good. On the other hand, consumers might stop buying the good once they become fed up with an unfinished, antiquated, buggy, and haphazard product. Likely, the long-term impact would be more revenue for the seller, even if there is a transient increase in cost.

By the way, here is the link to the since censored thread I was referring to: http://forums.radioreference.com/whistler-scanners/336057-help-trx1.html
 

marcotor

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You understand it's not simply buying a certificate from VeriSign or whomever, and somehow your driver magically becomes signed. You need WHQL certification, and other things before a driver is "signed".

I doubt Whistler (or Uniden for that matter) dedicates a ton of engineering resources to the scanners, after all they need to see a return on their investment. Lots of real business decisions go into allocating (very) limited engineering resources for a niche product that likely does not generate a lot of revenue.

I am certain Whistler understands if they make "a crap product and I won't buy them" they it may cost them sales. It's the Yin and Yang.

And now that I think of it, I doubt Whistler actually writes the hardware driver, it likely comes from the vendor.
 

AggieCon

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Right. So clever marketing instead of quality. I get that.

At the very least, they should describe their product as incompatible with anything Windows Vista and later. If they aren't going to update a 10 year old driver, they need to make it clear that users should expect a bad experience with anything after Windows XP. Of course, they are intentionally very vague, using the terminology "PC."

I'm a little vague at the moment of the entire signing process. But I have researched it in the past. There are three different tiers for certification. Since their driver is using Windows Drivers for the real work, the driver isn't as thoroughly tested; the certification process isn't that involved. I'll try to look it up later if I have time.

The driver is 10 years old. All they do is update a few lines of code with each new model number and name. It's not that advanced.
 

marcotor

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WHQL certification is needed, period.

And if Whistler does not write the particular driver, what should they do?
Witness the Wifi fiasco and Uniden, held hostage by a vendor. Perhaps you should go to Dallas, then Benton, and instruct them in the proper way to do business.

I don't like it, anymore than you do, and there are hundreds of posts here about it.

And Whistler has done nothing.

I think you have your answer.
 

AggieCon

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Frankly, "EZ" is quite a misrepresentation.

I do not understand why you are getting so upset at me. If no one points out these issues, they will never improve (why would they spend resources on something not perceived as a problem -- and when I use "problem" in this instance, it means "reduced sales").
 

marcotor

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Not upset, just trying to correct the impression of many that "think" the WHQL process is simple - because they read a White Paper, or it's "just a driver" - and I know it isn't.

Again, I doubt Whistler has any control over the hardware driver, other than asking the vendor to improve it.
 

W6KRU

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Where would we be without:
439.gif
 

SCPD

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The driver is 10 years old. All they do is update a few lines of code with each new model number and name. It's not that advanced.

As they should.

Guess what .. look up some Don Starr posts, they use the native USB driver, always have and likely always will. Something about reinventing the wheel.

The problem is not Whistler .. it is Microsoft. So time that we just do this :D and move on. Though could it be fixed .. sure, but why when it is not that hard and does work except for a select few.

It could increase the cost of scanners. There is enough whining about the cost now and imagine if you paid what I did. :wink:

As you may know .. I am an IT guy but if this was the hardest that it gets, I would be unemployed.

So this whole driver crap is just that .. crap. If you cannot do a 5 min procedure that is well documented on the top of this forum, then just sorry.

And yes .. the horse is dead. I hope. One of the biggest issues here .. is that the scanner world is not that big, we are not talking a lot of sales, thus why we see a lot of using the same things over and over again. Yes .. cost cutting, as RF engineering is expensive. That also applies to software.
 
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AggieCon

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It's still a Whistler driver, even if most of what it is doing is calling for a native driver's code. It still has to be signed. It's something Whistler would have to do if they want a driver compatible with modern operating systems. I do not understand what is so confusing about this.

Not only is the current method difficult, but it is unsafe and insecure.
 

SCPD

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Not only is the current method difficult, but it is unsafe and insecure.

Be sure to let me know when someone steals your scanner ... :D You are the only one complaining. All the people I know that have Whistler / GRE scanners are having no issues. The problem is not anywhere near as bad as you make it out to be. But .. it is your thread. :wink:
 

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It's still a Whistler driver, even if most of what it is doing is calling for a native driver's code. It still has to be signed. It's something Whistler would have to do if they want a driver compatible with modern operating systems. I do not understand what is so confusing about this.

Not only is the current method difficult, but it is unsafe and insecure.

I really do not understand any of this. Nonetheless, I know when I should ask a question. My $600.00 TRX-2 is coming tomorrow. I doubt I will have time tomorrow to even open the box. I saw a thread here where the exact start up process was mentioned by BUDDROASA. (sorry if spelled wrong) I bookmarked the page. Do I need to do that? If not, does Whistler provide any "start up" instructions? I use Windows 7. Anything Whistler screwed up? Thanks.
 
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AggieCon

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Well share the link you are referring to, and we can confirm.

In general, download the driver and software from the Whistler site. Install the software before attempting to connect the scanner.
 

greggk

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I am not on my computer now. The thread is on the first page named "whistler TRX-Review." I'm on the phone now and some websites are hard to navigate. Thanks
 

DonS

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It's still a Whistler driver, even if most of what it is doing is calling for a native driver's code.
The only driver involved (well, the only driver for which Windows causes installation problems) is Microsoft's: USBSER.SYS.

There is no Whistler driver. Whistler supplies an .INF file that says "hey, Windows, when you see a USB communication interface class device with this VID/PID, use the Microsoft driver that already exists". (No, an .INF file is not a driver. According to Microsoft, it's just a plain text file that Windows uses to install drivers.)

Note that with Windows 10, not even that .INF is required. When the scanner is connected, Windows 10 automatically starts using USBSER.SYS, assigns a COM port number, etc., just like it automatically assigns a drive letter and gives access to the scanner's SD card without an .INF.

The driver is 10 years old.
What driver is that? The first GRE-made scanner that had a USB interface (and thus required the Microsoft drivers) was the PSR-800. It's only 5 1/2 years old. FCC authorization (ADV0602902) in Jan 2011.
 

AggieCon

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Note that with Windows 10, not even that .INF is required. When the scanner is connected, Windows 10 automatically starts using USBSER.SYS, assigns a COM port number, etc., just like it automatically assigns a drive letter and gives access to the scanner's SD card without an .INF.

A very quick and simple search of this forum proves otherwise. Either that, or many (if not most) Whistler scanner owners, myself included, are either liars and/or incompetent.

The drive letter has to do with the USB Mass Storage Device, which generally does work on its own. The software generally has decent luck getting to the SD card, though many people report 3 failures before it works right. However, it's a whole different story when it needs to access the scanner memory to perform a firmware update.

I've covered much of this before, but Radio Reference censored the thread. Perhaps they might bring it back. If there is interest, I can try to find my original posts in that thread. It's also been covered in other threads.

Using the internet to search, also can be useful:

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/dn707976(v=vs.85).aspx

What you described would probably work (and it might work already if people DO NOT have the actual Whister driver on their computer) if the device ID was set correctly for a class code and subclass code of 2. That's what's listed in the compatibleIDs, but the deviceID isn't.

If you want to load Usbser.sys automatically, set the class code to 02 and subclass code to 02 in the Device Descriptor. For more information, see USB communications device class (or USB CDC) Specification found on the USB DWG website. With this approach, you are not required to distribute INF files for your device because the system uses Usbser.inf.

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/ff539283(v=vs.85).aspx

For example, the idVendor and idProduct fields specify vendor and product identifiers, respectively. Windows uses those field values to construct a hardware ID for the device.

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/ff539280(v=vs.85).aspx

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/ff538820(v=vs.85).aspx

More internet search results:

  1. You don't need to sign usbser.sys (KMCS) but you still need to sign your .inf, because the matching of usbser.sys to your Hardware ID or Compatible ID is not trivial and it's your responsibility, so you should be signed on it.
  2. You don't have to go through WHQL certificate on Windows Vista and higher. A code signing certificate from a known CA will suffice. This will raise a question of "Do you want to trust this publisher?". You can work around this by first adding yourself to the TrustedPublishers (see this question). (WHQL still has its benefits, e.g. you wouldn't have the above warning prompt.)

Can .inf file reference a built-in driver such that it won't give warning during installation? - Stack Overflow

Yes, the final version of Windows 8 does require all INF files to be signed, but you do not need to submit your drivers to the WHQL.

certificate - In Windows 8, will third-party INF driver files require a signature? - Stack Overflow

(Marcotor pay attention to the above ^^^ quoted information...)

And this great article, which has specific information regarding USB to Serial drivers and USBSER.sys (why I chose it). Practical Windows Code and Driver Signing

A driver package consists of a single INF file and the files that it references.

Blaming this on Windows cracks me up. Half of this forum must be unsubstantiated mumbling.

If your driver only uses WinUSB or usbser.sys, all you need to worry about is getting your driver package installed, as described in the Installing a driver package section. The kernel modules you are using have already been signed by Microsoft and you will have no trouble getting them loaded into the kernel after the driver package is installed.

Of course, in the Whistler driver, they try to pass off some signed file mchpcdc.cat (see lines 106 and 17) as their own (a file that is found in Windows). But I doubt it would work with their driver package. No wonder Windows sends up warning flags.

See line 18 of the driver: DriverVer=11/15/2007,5.1.2600.0

Perhaps General Research of Electronics or whoever this was taken/bought from will help.

It's shocking to me that people don't even open up the driver as a text file and look on their own.

I would be happy to help resolve these problems, because I think it's absolutely ridiculous that so many people struggle with this.

There is obviously poor understanding of these issues. Perhaps posting quotes and links from third party sources might allow us to progress instead nonsense directed at me. I think I have sufficiently led the horse to water.
 

greggk

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I am not on my computer now. The thread is on the first page named "whistler TRX-Review." I'm on the phone now and some websites are hard to navigate. Thanks

And so what do I do before I turn on my TRX 2? This still makes no sense to me. I just don't want to lock myself out of the whistler software before I even start. If anyone can help it would be great. Thank you again. Greg.
 

AggieCon

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This is my best advice at the moment:

  1. Download and install EZ Scan
  2. Connect your scanner without loading (or downloading) any drivers (it is important that the Whistler driver is not on your computer
  3. See if you can set the clock using EZ Scan
  4. If not, you will have to load the Whistler drivers
  5. Follow the sticky thread in this forum for those instructions
This situation is incredibly rude to the customers and the dealers.
 
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