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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 10-25-2018, 4:33 AM
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Default Motorola batteries for future scanner?

Why didn't I think of this before?

Design a handheld scanner around easily obtainable Motorola batteries! I'm thinking the venerable HT1250 type, or the more modern XPR / XTS etc?

BUT - by designing the scanner shape so that the whole package won't fit into a Motorola charger, but just the battery stand-alone, this SOLVES the problem of those who leave the scanner on while charging and using it as a stand. I see this kind of abuse at work, where people don't turn off the radio and pop it back into the charger. With a weird scanner shape, one would have to remove the battery from the scanner to charge in the Motorola base. Keep a spare battery for hot-swap.

A formal feature request for this was filed with Whistler.

Now us *true* battery geeks can get stop worrying about single-vendor supplied batteries, and can go hog wild with Motorola Impres batteries and Impres chargers if we want to! Or just stick to the standard versions. User's choice!

AND, if one doesn't like li-ion for whatever reason, you can still get the NIMH versions with the older style Motorola series, like the HT's - and along with lithium versions, and Impres versions too of course.

Dreaming of the day this happens!

Last edited by hertzian; 10-25-2018 at 4:54 AM..
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Old 10-25-2018, 6:50 AM
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All the newer batteries are the base of the radio and the whole battery sticks above the charger. So making the scanner larger won't do a thing. But if your talking the type radio where the battery is the back of the radio, then yes, the larger scanner will prevent the larger scanner and battery from fitting into the charger.

However there is a way around this. Simple place the battery in the charger with a piece of plastic or wood to hold the battery against the charging contacts. I do this with some of the batteries I have that don't fit the charger I use with the battery attached to the radio.

So a design change to the scanner to make it larger to prevent the package from fitting the charger is not the real solution. Not sure there is a total solution here.

The reason Motorola changed from the battery being on the back of the radio to the base of the radio was to allow more room for electronics inside the radio and not make the radio case larger. It was better to make the radio longer than fatter. So that is the reason you see the newer model radios with the battery on the bottom.
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Old 10-25-2018, 12:03 PM
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Wondering why this is in the Whistler forum? Shouldn't this have been in the General Scanning forum

Larry
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Old 10-25-2018, 12:13 PM
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I would think 18650 li-ion would be a better option, cheap and easy to get hold of and there are loads of external chargers for them as well.
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Old 10-25-2018, 2:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim202 View Post
So a design change to the scanner to make it larger to prevent the package from fitting the charger is not the real solution. Not sure there is a total solution here.
Ah yes I see what you're saying. I do the shim trick with a vehicular mobile ht charger too once in awhile.

I think my thought was to make it super easy for a scanner manufacturer to implement, without having to even worry about R&D into specialized batteries and chargers. Just use off-the-shelf stuff, as easy as using AA's. Nowadays, Moto batteries (and clones) and chargers are easily available online. Takes the CEC certification issue away from the scanner manufacturer too.

Maybe just supply a NIMH slimline in the box, and the user can go from there. Now no lithium shipping issues either. Quick out the door for new models.

I don't know about licensing. Wonder if a scanner manufacturer could design a scanner so that the shape will perfectly fit an existing Motorola charger? That's why I thought a work-around would be that as a manufacturer, you don't have to worry about the shape of the scanner body itself, as long as just the battery will fit into the cup by itself.

N8IAA - you are probably right - maybe this would have been better off in the general category..

Quote:
The reason Motorola changed from the battery being on the back of the radio to the base of the radio was to allow more room for electronics inside the radio and not make the radio case larger. It was better to make the radio longer than fatter. So that is the reason you see the newer model radios with the battery on the bottom.
Yep - so that might be an issue - one would have to go back to the back-of-the-radio design.

Dunno - I could see something like the Unidens 75 / 125 etc being redesigned to use say a Moto CP200 battery back perhaps? Although I don't like the CP200 batts since there is no Impres charger version of those.

First responders using scanners for *entertainment* might have plenty of batts and chargers available at their disposal. Although the last thing I think a first responder would want to do after work is listen to more radio!

Last edited by hertzian; 10-25-2018 at 2:50 PM..
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Old 10-26-2018, 12:54 PM
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Just what we need, a proprietary, expensive, single source battery pack. Motorola tends to be just a little overpriced....

I'm sorry, but I don't see the "improvement" you are seeing.....

Keep it simple (AA, AAA), stay away from non serviceable battery packs....

$.02
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Old 10-26-2018, 1:27 PM
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If you are good at arts and hobby craft you could fabricate a new case for the scanner, then transfer the guts from it into it and mold the back to fit a motorola battery.

3d printer would be more ideal but some of us gp about things the old way.

I made adapters for the impress chargers since I felt I don't need to spend anywhere between 20 to 60 bucks for a plastic piece that fits a battery. I made them by hand, dremel, plastic, rubber, model clay you can cure before.
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Old 10-26-2018, 1:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by byndhlptom View Post
Just what we need, a proprietary, expensive, single source battery pack. Motorola tends to be just a little overpriced....

I'm sorry, but I don't see the "improvement" you are seeing.....

Keep it simple (AA, AAA), stay away from non serviceable battery packs....

$.02
While this is true for most of the consumer grade end some of us have refurbished dead battery packs. It isn't a 5 minute job but with know how on the battery aspect tk replace dead cells with out causing a fire and fine work on the shell itself its possible.

I think he means like the battery clam shells for the battery, mold a clam shell pack that will slide into his scanner fitting batteries which will go into a charger like he says.

Problem is you'd have to make it tall wise and the bottom slide and lock into the current scanner. The back going up would make the scanner bulkier. This is where you'd need to make a new fabricated housing for the scanner. You couldn't sell it though not sure how that would go with companies these days.
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Old 10-26-2018, 2:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by byndhlptom View Post
Just what we need, a proprietary, expensive, single source battery pack. Motorola tends to be just a little overpriced....

I'm sorry, but I don't see the "improvement" you are seeing.....

Keep it simple (AA, AAA), stay away from non serviceable battery packs....

$.02
AA / AAA don't have enough energy density for these power guzzlers
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Old 10-26-2018, 2:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim202 View Post



The reason Motorola changed from the battery being on the back of the radio to the base of the radio was to allow more room for electronics inside the radio and not make the radio case larger. It was better to make the radio longer than fatter. So that is the reason you see the newer model radios with the battery on the bottom.


This only a factor with the APX6000, APX7000 (which is EOL) and APX8000. The XPR portables (minus the 6000 series) and APX4000, APX1000 and APX900 all have their batteries on their backs (in fact, they all use the same battery).

That being said, there is a large aftermarket for Motorola radios. For example, I buy lithium ion batteries from power products for my Astro Sabers still and they even have a Intriniscally Safe battery for Jedi series radios.


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Old 10-26-2018, 2:51 PM
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You can get three to four times the normal lifespan of your current scanner batteries for just $27. No modifications needed!
https://www.amazon.com/EBL-2800mAh-R...batteries&th=1

What's that, you want a custom holder to make them easy to swap? Here you go!
https://whistlergroup.com/products/n...-ws1010-ws1040

If one cannot be bothered to change out the batteries, then just get one of these. Use Velcro or get a case to hold it all.
https://www.amazon.com/Anker-PowerCo...5%3A2470955011
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Old 10-26-2018, 3:32 PM
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Datron, maker of military and public service radios had a hand held that used Motorola Saber batteries and a later radio that used Motorola XTS series batteries. The Motorola battery idea seemed to work for them.
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Old 10-27-2018, 2:26 AM
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Great input - so here's the answer for a *future* scanner, and not a mod to make everyone happy:

I've been doing the Eneloop and Maha MH-C9000 charger setup for years keeping track of individual cell capacity, internal resistance, grouping them into similar packs (even though they are just together in the holder), and keeping spares. Getting tired of that.

Supply only a Motorola shaped non-rechargeable clamshell to fit AA's. Traditionalists will be pleased, and us Moto battery geeks can go nuts. With so many knock-offs available, the single-vendor issue really isn't.

But us moto geeks would love it, especially if we are using the same batts and chargers at work.

Part of this desire is that I don't use batteries in the typical full-drain / full-charge scenario with my radios at work, so it becomes kind of a pain to swap AA's out all the time now in the scanner. Used to be fun. Not so much any more. And no, the usb charger on the TRX-1 doesn't count. I understand why.

Seems like a win-win. Manfacturers only need supply a dummy AA clamshell, and perhaps a wider voltage regulator and can wash their hands of the whole upgraded battery scene and let the user take it as far as they want to go.
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Old 10-27-2018, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by byndhlptom View Post
Just what we need, a proprietary, expensive, single source battery pack. Motorola tends to be just a little overpriced....
Motorola batteries are ANYTHING but single sourced. There are plenty of aftermarket, cheap solutions, unlike the expensive, single source battery pack currently on one production scanner that no one can currently purchase standalone.
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Old 10-27-2018, 1:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N8IAA View Post
Wondering why this is in the Whistler forum? Shouldn't this have been in the General Scanning forum

Larry
Probably because of this line:

Quote:
Originally Posted by hertzian View Post
A formal feature request for this was filed with Whistler.
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Old 10-27-2018, 7:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prcguy View Post
Datron, maker of military and public service radios had a hand held that used Motorola Saber batteries and a later radio that used Motorola XTS series batteries. The Motorola battery idea seemed to work for them.
It is just a matter of a few years that Motorola and the aftermarket companies stop making Saber and XTS series batteries.

A better option would be if the electronics industry would standardize on higher capacity rectangular lithium packs for common voltages.
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Old 10-28-2018, 3:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vagrant View Post
You can get three to four times the normal lifespan of your current scanner batteries for just $27. No modifications needed!
https://www.amazon.com/EBL-2800mAh-R...batteries&th=1
EBL = low quality Chinese cells prone to early failures.
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Old 10-28-2018, 5:18 AM
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Ok, how about FREE batteries for cheapskates that are willing to put trash on their expensive "future" scanner?

Normally I don't recommend playing with trash revival, but yes I have done it with the Moto batteries. Boxes of badly discharged and abused batts from other divisions have headed my way (since we have proper disposal facilities), and in a backhanded kind of way, only the Motorola batteries, unless they had shorted / reversed cells, made it back into *non critical, non corporate, geek playtime usage*, when I revived them.

Most of the Moto chargers will kick them out pretty quick, or go immediately to a faulty full-charge due to the higher internal impedance due to age and abuse, be they nimh or li-ion.

In the case of NIMH, my favorite reviver is the old flat-bed Motorola WPLN4086BR / CR with appropriate style matching plate. This will handle the higher impedance abused batts, and so far I have about 5 of the larger 2200mah HT1250 and a few others from about 2004 (3 digits on the black label), that give me about 20 hours of rx-only or low-power transmit usage. The AdvanceTec flat-bed charger with proper sled holder does very well too on reviving and dealing with the moto nimh batts.

NONE of the 3rd party batts put to this kind of abuse ever make it. But some of the Moto's do. Weird way to say you get what you pay for with cell quality by reviving trash.

Abused or aged li-ions same story, but I only use the original li-ion moto charger. Not many make it like the nimh's do, but I have some fun high-impedance trash batteries doing yeoman rx-only service. 10 years old is about the limit on these without having ridiculously small capacities, or just being refused immediately by the charger. Ok, so they won't be good for transmit - but rx only - in many cases yes, for 12 hours or more.

But make no mistake, I do not play with trash at work, and at the first sign of anything weird, I recycle the trash when they no longer serve adequately for rx-only work. I prefer keeping Impress batts in good shape.

3rd party batts - they never seem to make even the zombie / rx only grade when abused.

Not advocating it, but just saying that if a corporate division upgrades radio models, goes out of business etc, and doesn't immediately recycle their batts, there may be some free batteries out there for the trashpicker to put on a "future scanner" - as long as they are moto!

Last edited by hertzian; 10-28-2018 at 5:34 AM..
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Old 10-28-2018, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RFI-EMI-GUY View Post
It is just a matter of a few years that Motorola and the aftermarket companies stop making Saber and XTS series batteries.

A better option would be if the electronics industry would standardize on higher capacity rectangular lithium packs for common voltages.
You can still find aftermarket MX batteries relatively easy, so I don't think that's really a concern.

As far as standardization, that would require agreement between manufacturers that could affect future accessory sales, so I don't think you'll ever see that.
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Old 10-29-2018, 10:10 PM
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Why not just use the 18650 cells?

David
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