North shore fire

[CrabbyMilton]

154.340 now appears to have an automated voice while paging. I thought I read that they were having some trouble with that paging system and the other day I heard one of the units saying on the Channel 1 talk group that they never received the tones. Just stay tuned I guess.

 

[mkescan]

They have been doing the paging on 154.340 for over a month now. I think one reason was so units in the field would hear right away, at times when dispatcher might be too busy to do right away over dispatch primary.

 

[ToDaMax]

Im curious how it will all work out between Station Paging and Dispatch Primary, and where they plan to use the automated voice. (Station Paging and/or Card 1000). I belive I've heard the automated voice on both sides. Still working out the kinks

 

[a1emt]

Hey group,

here is the automated dispatch system being implemented, it's called Locution.

Fire Station Alerting Systems - Dispatch Software - Locution Systems

Station paging will eventually be via an IP based digital system (non-radio). The VHF 154.3400 will be used as a "hot" backup to the IP.

In addition, the Locution system will also transmit an automated voice message on the 800 dispatch talkgroup for units in the field (replacing the manual "Car 1000" message).

I say 'eventually' because it is a complex system and still being optimized. It is a very cool system with a lot of potential to speed call processing and dispatching. Stay tuned....

Jim

 

[CrabbyMilton]

That does sound interesting how it works. That's good that they "similcast" it over 154.340 for the benefit of the guys who aren't glued to the CAD monidor that way they can head for the trucks in the station therefore speed things up. HEHE, on a lighter note, it will be interesting to see if they change voices and try the "drunken Russian" that pops up on NOAA.

 

[ToDaMax]

It will be interesting to see if they change voices and try the "drunken Russian" that pops up on NOAA.

Ha. I think I'd die of asphyxiation from laughing too hard if they pulled out the russian voice...or microsoft sam.

 

[CrabbyMilton]

"EEEgine 5, trk 3, balion 9 this is the NOAA weather radio respond to...

 

[mkescan]

Automated dispatch system now on NSFD Primary

 

[CrabbyMilton]

Yes and sometimes units ask to repeat the address and a human has to do it. I remember once years ago an engine was responding and the MSFD officer was a bit exasperated when the dispatcher couldn't hear him to which the dispatcher rather snarkily said "Well I can't hear you over the siren."
I'm triyng to imagine an automated NOAA type voice saying that.

 

[Legoboy3998]

Sorry for bumping such an old post, but listening to the North Shore Fire recently, sounds like they have added quite a few channels. Hear Battalion 8 at sevens saying ops will be on 8tacred or channel 16maintenancered. Does anyone know the numbers for the aforementioned channels, or any other additional (to the ones in the current database) channels that they or the North Shore PDs and DPWs might be using? As well as any additional control or alternate channels for the Milwaukee County Public Safety System other than the four in the database? I know they have consolidated a lot of the North Shore Comms plus added the computerized dispatching for fire. Just wondering if they added any channels and how to find them.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Legoboy3998]

Forgot to sign.

Sal
WFB, WI

 

[mkescan]

8-TAC is Fireground frequecies used by all Fire Depts on 800mhz.
8-TAC RED 851.4500 (156.7) MABAS Red
8-TAC WHITE 851.9500 (156.7) MABAS White
8-TAC BLUE 852.4500 (156.7) MABAS Blue

 

[OpSec]

8-TAC is Fireground frequecies used by all Fire Depts on 800mhz.
8-TAC RED 851.4500 (156.7) MABAS Red
8-TAC WHITE 851.9500 (156.7) MABAS White
8-TAC BLUE 852.4500 (156.7) MABAS Blue

Point of clarification:

The 800 "color" channels are not MABAS channels. They are a set of six 800 MHz interoperability channels for use within Wisconsin and can be used with mobile/portable radios under the State's license.

Use of these and the other conventional (non-WISCOM) interoperable radio channels by public safety is governed by the Mutual Aid Frequency Coordinating Group (MFCG) and the channels are part of the published statewide mutual aid frequency plan (aka Annex K). Fire and EMS are given preferred use of these channels over law, EM, etc but all disciplines can use them if needed.

The MABAS system does not control or override use of these channels, and it's been a bad habit by the fire service to call these "MABAS xxx". The only dedicated channels for MABAS in Wisconsin are IFERN, IFERN2 and MABAS1/MABAS2 on WISCOM. The names of these channels are standardized and should only be referred to as:

8TACRED
8TACWHITE
8TACBLUE
8TACGOLD
8TACBLACK
8TACGRAY

Note the lack of spaces, dashes etc.

/rant

 

[Legoboy3998]

Thanks for the info OpSec. It seems odd for them to be using these interop channels when the have 3 tac channels of their own. I have heard the battalion chief say to use 8tacred twice. I have also heard him say to use channel 16 maintenancered. I can not find that channel in any database.

thanks again,
Sal
WFB, WI

 

[a1emt]

Thanks for the info OpSec. It seems odd for them to be using these interop channels when the have 3 tac channels of their own. I have heard the battalion chief say to use 8tacred twice. I have also heard him say to use channel 16 maintenancered. I can not find that channel in any database.

Hey Lego,

The reason the 8TACRED frequency is preferred over the NSFD tactical talkgroups on the County 800 MHz trunked system is reliability for in-building coverage during firefighting operations. When fighting a fire in a structure, many times we are crawling below heat and smoke and working in basements and other areas that don't have the best radio system coverage. The simplex frequencies (8TACxx) are EXTREMELY reliable for close range communications in the hazard zone as they do not rely on the ability to transmit to a repeater/trunked radio system. On a trunked talkgroup, if you are out of range of the system-- NO ONE hears you, even if they are 10 feet away. In the fire service world, this is when bad things happen. Whereas in the simplex world there is no single point of failure and transmissions between crews and the on-scene incident commander are typically solid.

Also...this 'maintenance red' that you speak of does not exist... it is likely the "MABAS RED" slang that OPsec explained in his post.

See MABAS Wisconsin - Home Page for more information on the Mutual Aid and Communications System known as MABAS.

Hope this helps,

Jim

 

[Legoboy3998]

Thanks a1emt for the info. The battalion chief must have been saying "MABAS RED" like OpSec mentioned as you suggested. I just found it interesting as it seems that recently (this year) it seems the NSFR started using the 8TACxx channels as opposed to their regular tac channels as they have used in the past. I have added all the 8TACxx channels and the IFERN/Firecom channels for Milwaukee County. (Saturday night I heard a MABAS request which was real interesting hearing how they request units from different areas.)

Thanks again for all the help.

Sal
WFB, WI

 

[Legoboy3998]

Hello again all, back with more questions.

I have been listening to the North Shore Fire Department for some time now. about a month or so ago, the automatic dispatch has seemed to change slightly. In the past, when units would be dispatched, it would go sort of like this:

Alert tones, (in the computerized voice,) "Engine 84, Med 82, ALS person having trouble breathing, 1200 E. Fairmount Avenue, Whitefish Bay, Zone F4." The units would report "responding," and the dispatcher would repeat the address verbally and give more information.

Lately, as of about mid February IIRC, it seems the automated dispatch gives less information. for the incident above, it goes something like this:

Alert Tones, (in the computerized voice,) "Engine 84, Med 82 ALS response, 1200 E Fairmount Avenue, Whitefish Bay, FD." As before, the units call "responding" and the dispatcher repeats the address verbally and gives the usual more detailed information.

I first noticed this change right around the time there was a large power outage in Bayside, where the dispatch center is. It almost sounds like the system went back to "default" settings with the more specific dispatch types and various response zones not being in the system.

I know that eventually the system is supposed to go to some sort of IP based dispatching, but I don't know if that is what has happened and why the automated voice dispatching has changed.

On occasion, the automated voice will tell dispatched units to "refer to WDA for incident type (or) address." This isn't really new, before this change that would happen on occasion too.

Also, I often hear the dispatcher or the stations talking about sending and receiving "station pages," but don't ever hear the pages themselves. obviously these are not being sent on the trunked dispatch channel. Are these station pages sent over the air on a channel that can be monitored, or are they sent via some sort of more secure method, (i.e. land line, IP, or some other).

Any information or tips would be greatly appreciated. I do have the 4 channels for the NSFD talkgroup for MCTRS as well as the two North Shore Police talkgroups and the MABAS channels.

Sal
WFB, WI

 

[CrabbyMilton]

I'm fairly certain that NSFD is still dispatched via landline. Whether it's via computer or old fashioned telephone line is not a factor since it's not over the air. MFD has a similar set up where calls are not dispatched over the air.IIf the landline system works why fool with it. No need to add another TG or frequency just for dispatch. West Allis and Wauwatosa have dedicated frequencies just for dispatch. MSFD has the ability to program whatever automated voice instructions they want so perhaps the power failure was a factor and/or they were trying other instructions. Just keep checking the wonderful data base on here in case something has changed but I doubt it at this time.

 

[a1emt]

CAD Upgrade

The change in what the Locution automated voice system is putting out is due to a recent change in CAD software. They are still working out a few glitches, but the community name and fire response zone should be coming back in the near future.

Regarding station alerting, it is the exact same Locution voice system, but it selectively pages the required stations via IP infrastructure... Sounds a lot more crisp and clear over the station speakers compared to radio. Happens at the exact same time as the radio broadcast as well.

Jim

 

[Legoboy3998]

Thanks Jim for your response. The last couple of days, I have noticed the automatic dispatching giving community name and zone when dispatching. I have also noticed they changed some of the zones. It did seem almost like the CAD software was reset to default in vagueness in the way it had been dispatching. That makes sense now if they upgraded/changed the software.

I figured the station paging was wired some how, and therefore not monitorable via scanner.

Thanks again for all the info and help.

Sal
WFB, WI