2021 MOSWIN Sites/Talkgroups

[foster_006]

So my suspicion is growing that the MOSWIN Zone 4 - Springfield 800 site will be simulcast. I'm not familiar enough with simulcast to know what to look for to confirm this. Does anyone else on this thread have ears in the Springfield area that can help me out? UniTrunker data has been good. My signal strength isn't great, but I just assumed maybe the site that I'm monitoring was on lower power based on the fact that the system isn't active yet. The signal strength wavers a lot.. it's not consistently bad or good. Also, UniTrunker has been adding a Delegate to the MOSWIN system when monitoring 859.9625. And I've always thought that the control channel sounds really distorted or very similar to static... unlike most control channels I monitor.

Can anyone provide any insight on possible issues? I'm using a Uniden 780XLT with a discriminator tap to decode the control channel. My Radio Shack Pro96 has issues with decoding the control channel with Pro96com. Unfortunately, SDR and Pro2096 are my only available digital options to monitor. I've heard very limited voice traffic while monitoring conventional (not trunked) on the Zone 4 frequencies and they seem to sound okay, strong signal.. etc.

Any help is appreciated!

 

[nd5y]

I'm not familiar enough with simulcast to know what to look for to confirm this.

The FCC licenses indicate it is simulcast. There is more than one location and all locations have the same frequencies.

I just assumed maybe the site that I'm monitoring was on lower power based on the fact that the system isn't active yet.

Not very likely.

 

[nd5y]

Also, UniTrunker has been adding a Delegate to the MOSWIN system when monitoring 859.9625.

It don't think it can do that by itself. You probably accidently delegated something. I don't think you can fix that with out deleting the system and whatever system it delegated to.

 

[wbloss]

I was in Springfield with my Laptab, Pro96Com and PSR600. Only had 90 minutes of listening and onl saw one TG 40620, and one RID 49921. That RID does not seem in the same sequence as @foster_006. The wavering signal is a function of multipath distortion, A couple of times there sounded like a control signal on 859.5125 - have you seen that? Pro96Com does not report an alt cc tho. @foster_006 - do you have the ability to monitor the new system with one radio while listening to the old M36 system? I bet they may just be porting over and we could match TGs that way.

 

[zzdiesel]

Am I correct in assuming TG 4103 is Butler Cnty Dispatch? My reasoning is 4101 & 4102 are both in the DB as in Butler Cnty. One thing that throws me is this 4103 is hitting the Dexter tower every time. The Officer's ID numbers are in the 390's

 

[scanman1958]

I too think it may be a simulcast system. StarCom in IL has two of them in two counties just east of St Louis. Though their site numbers are in line with all the other sites in that region. Maybe the MOSWIN techs have numberd it 400 during setup for simplicity. Just a guess. I was in Springfield a couple weeks ago and also noticed a low power signal.

I just remembered that the StarCom simulcast sites have multiple towers within each county so if, and only if, it does end up being simulcast there could be signal distortion issues. But we must all remember this is all new stuff to Springfield. Be patient but enjoy.

 

[wbloss]

Let's put a few things to bed:
- The new 800MHz MOSWIN "Site" in Springfield IS a simulcast setup. As noted the FCC license places the same set of frequencies at several locations, thus Simo.
- MOSWIN techs numbered the site as #1 in ZONE 4. Zones are ways to do a few things:
- Group similar sites in a geographic area for ease of use on a transceiver
- Expand a system to include related but somewhat discrete subsystems
- Be controlled by a separate Zone Controller - used to be max 64 sites per Zone
- Zone COltrollers exist in Jeff City, Weldon Springs, and I'd assume now Springfield
- The effect of simultaneously transmitting a signal from several transmitters on the exact same frequency causes it often to seem like a low powered signal. With the newest SDS 100/200 receivers a different method (IQ) ((in-phase/quadrature-phase (IQ) )) fixes that.

Here's an interesting summary: FON How a SmartZone system works

 

[foster_006]

I was in Springfield with my Laptab, Pro96Com and PSR600. Only had 90 minutes of listening and onl saw one TG 40620, and one RID 49921. That RID does not seem in the same sequence as @foster_006. The wavering signal is a function of multipath distortion, A couple of times there sounded like a control signal on 859.5125 - have you seen that? Pro96Com does not report an alt cc tho. @foster_006 - do you have the ability to monitor the new system with one radio while listening to the old M36 system? I bet they may just be porting over and we could match TGs that way.

I do have the ability to monitor both. But based on what I've seen so far, new talkgroups, new RIDs.. but for the most part.. same radios. I've seen several fire departments with APX radios, and then some with XTS series radios. I know there are several MTS radios on the analog system right now, so those will need to be replaced. But I think, for the most part, the P25 capable radios will just need to be reprogrammed when it's time. I've only been able to identify one Talkgroup (with voice confirmation) and the radio ID was different for them than what they use on the analog system.

As for the simulcast distortion, thank you for confirming this for me. I switched UniTrunker over to an SDR and the difference in signal strength is night and day. So now I'll be using one SDR to decode the new system and I've dedicated my analog scanner with a discriminator tap to decode the analog system and whatever else I want to decode. I'm really trying to hold out on purchasing an SDS 200.. but it's looking like it will be happening in my near future.

I finally got my discone in the attic and I'm able to pull in the Hurley site without a problem. Fair Grove, believe it or not, is on the fringe of my discone coverage area.. but I can decode pretty consistently with some minor, occasional drops in signal strength. I live in southeast Springfield.

As for UniTrunker, I've wiped all of my data and started with a fresh install. I'll be able to keep an eye on any changes a little easier this way. Right now, the M36 system shows 13 active voice channels and 4 alternate control channels. I have not compared them to the license yet to see which frequencies have made the jump from M36 to Zone 4, but I will once I start seeing more voice activity on the new digital system.

Also, I have not noted a control channel on 859.5125.

 

[drdeputy]

I finally got my discone in the attic and I'm able to pull in the Hurley site without a problem. Fair Grove, believe it or not, is on the fringe of my discone coverage area.. but I can decode pretty consistently with some minor, occasional drops in signal strength. I live in southeast Springfield.

Ok, that was weird. I also just got MY discone in the attic, but I must be west of you. I'm in SGF on the west side of KS Expy and south of Republic Rd. I'm fairly new to the area, so just getting my feet wet a bit. I do have an SDS200. And I don't think I'm getting Fair Grove, just Hurley where I am. I have a yagi that I have not put up yet, but it wouldn't really gain me anything that I can think of right now. I had used it more in IA where I moved from. Des Moines PD just switched to 700/800 MHz P25-2 simulcast right after I left. They had been on 4xx MHz analog until recently. At least they left PD dispatch unencrypted and have a really good relationship with the local scanner group.

 

[foster_006]

The control channel on 859.9625 seems to have disappeared. Now it appears that all Zone 4 channels have a constant data burst of some sort. I don't believe I've ever heard it before.

I also noticed the affiliations activity on the analog site were much more than usual. Maybe the turned off the system and then turned it back on again?


Edit: the control channel has returned and no data activity on any other Zone 4 frequency.

Edit 2: here's a video of what I heard.

 

[foster_006]

Ok, that was weird. I also just got MY discone in the attic, but I must be west of you. I'm in SGF on the west side of KS Expy and south of Republic Rd. I'm fairly new to the area, so just getting my feet wet a bit. I do have an SDS200. And I don't think I'm getting Fair Grove, just Hurley where I am. I have a yagi that I have not put up yet, but it wouldn't really gain me anything that I can think of right now. I had used it more in IA where I moved from. Des Moines PD just switched to 700/800 MHz P25-2 simulcast right after I left. They had been on 4xx MHz analog until recently. At least they left PD dispatch unencrypted and have a really good relationship with the local scanner group.

Welcome to Springfield! You're just in time to see the transition from an old M36 system to the MOSWIN P25 system. I'm not sure how many people on the Missouri forum are in the Springfield area, but there are several in the region.

 

[nd5y]

The control channel on 859.9625 seems to have disappeared. Now it appears that all Zone 4 channels have a constant data burst of some sort. I don't believe I've ever heard it before.

That's some kind of test pattern. I've seen it before.

 

[626hawkeye]

At the time of me typing this it appears the Sedalia 700 site is down. I'm not getting anything at all on all my scanners.

 

[626hawkeye]

At the time of me posting this it appears the Sedalia 700 site of the MOSWIN system appears to be down/ offline. I've check all my scanners compared to rr database and everything seems correct but I'm not getting signal. I get everything else but nothing from the site.

 

[nd5y]

Some of the other 700 MHz sites changed frequencies in the last few months.
Search 769-775 MHz in 6.25 kHz steps and see if it moved.

 

[626hawkeye]

Some of the other 700 MHz sites changed frequencies in the last few months.
Search 769-775 MHz in 6.25 kHz steps and see if it moved.

I'll have to give that a try thank you.

 

[626hawkeye]

Ok I've found 769.1562. Is it possible they only changed the control channel or would they change all frequencies? How do I find the other channels I have a BCD325P2, BCD436HP, BCD536HP and a WS1040

 

[nd5y]

769.15625 is one of the control channels used on the deployable systems (SOW trailer) according to CAPRAD.
The other channels in that group should be 769.95625 770.46875 773.08125 774.03125 774.53125.
It could be a temporary change.

Unitrunker will log all the channels that are used. I don't know if any of the scanners you have can do that by themselves. You should be able to watch the display and see what voice channels are used. Also check to see if the SYSID, RFSS and Site Number changed.

 

[wbloss]

With the WS1040 you can go to the cc and see the site # - will be interesting to see if it shows the Sedalia # or another SOW #

 

[626hawkeye]

My WS1040 wouldn't pick up but my BCD436HP did with no issue.