296d problem with Baltimore City...

[saxsin]

I have a 296d that is set to track Baltimore City police and fire. The settings used are:

Scan - Trunk On
Type - TypeII/P25
Delay - On
Activity ID - On
I-Call - On
Status Bit - On
End Code - On
Control channel - Off
Data Skip - Off
Apco card - On
SQ Mode - Tone SQ (have tried all 3 settings)

I have all of the freqs programmed, with 868.9500 as the primary. I have about 10 IDs programmed. The audio levels are set with the beginning at 533 (have also tried at 4, 6, and 7)

When I scan, the radio just stays on scan and never stops. If I bring up a channel manually, I can hear the traffic fine. It would seem that the radio is not recognizing the main channel, and as such is not tracking any of the other channels.

What am I doing wrong here? Is it a setup problem, a radio problem? My 996t tracks fine, and this radio is driving me mad! I recently did all of the updates available, and I was hopeful that would be the end of the problem...

Thanks in advance for any help you can recommend!

 

[garys]

First, change tone sq to OFF. Trunk systems don't use PL tones. That's probably not your problem, but it's something you should do. Second, check and make sure that none of control or alternate control channels are locked out. Third, check to make sure that all frequencies are set to Trunk On. This is a per channel/frequency setting.

Are you programming by hand or using software?

 

[saxsin]

Thank you.
I did turn the Tone SQ off. I checked to nake sure that none of the frequencies were locked out, and that all channels are set to Trunk On. I am using the Uniden included programming CD, and have also tried to fix this via BuTel's demo.
I use BuTel on my 996, and have double checked that all of the settings are relatively the same. The big difference is that the 996 only uses the primary channels, none other are listed.
I just can't figure why the traffic comes up manually. Let me know if you think of anything else I can do....

 

[saxsin]

It's almost like the radio is not accepting the primary channel as a trunking channel even though trunking is on. Anyone with either a 296 or Baltimore City digital programmed...any help would be great! The radio is essentially a fancy brick right now :-(

 

[ka3jjz]

The other thing here is that the city is, like many trunk systems in our area, not a true P25 system (look at 'system voice'). Program this as a regular type 2. 73s Mike

 

[saxsin]

Yes, the system voice being a combo of technologies is problematic. I'm pretty sure the setup I'm using is the only one acceptable for this radio, may just have to ditch the radio... it seems like the 996 is not plagued by these problems, perhaps my handheld should be a 396?

I read somewhere else that this radio (296) just might not be able to differentiate signals well enough to track in a dowtown area, and I'm smack dab in the middle. The primary channel comes through no problem, but there is static in the reception. Not so on the 996 with same rooftop antenna. Maybe not a clean enough signal for the radio to understand.

Thanks for the responses, all thoughts on the matter are welcome.

 

[garys]

Yes, the system voice being a combo of technologies is problematic. I'm pretty sure the setup I'm using is the only one acceptable for this radio, may just have to ditch the radio... it seems like the 996 is not plagued by these problems, perhaps my handheld should be a 396?

I read somewhere else that this radio (296) just might not be able to differentiate signals well enough to track in a dowtown area, and I'm smack dab in the middle. The primary channel comes through no problem, but there is static in the reception. Not so on the 996 with same rooftop antenna. Maybe not a clean enough signal for the radio to understand.

Thanks for the responses, all thoughts on the matter are welcome.

I'm guessing that by "primary channel" you mean control channel, which carries the trunking data. Try this. Take the scanner out of trunk mode and manually step through each frequency. On one of them you should hear the data stream. If you aren't, you have to recheck the control channel frequencies.

Also, I think you said you were using the free Uniden software. I can't help you with that as no one I know ever got it to work properly and I never even tried. If you buy ARC250 by Butel I have a file I can send you that covers Baltimore City as well as some other digital trunk systems on the east coast. It worked fine the last time I was in Baltimore, so it should help you out.

Gary

 

[W4KRR]

If you can hear conversations while stepping through the frequencies manually, but not when in trunking mode, then you have the scanner programmed incorrectly.

It seems that the scanner is not in trunking mode; I don't have this model scanner, but I believe you have to set the scanner to the trunking mode before you enter the frequencies. Also, try setting it to a Motorola type II system, NOT a P-25 system.

 

[saxsin]

Yes, the control channel is set correctly, and programmed into spot 1 and set as a primary channel. As far as the frequencies, I have the BuTel demo loaded, and the info lists the same on both programs: all frequencies and talk groups are active and set to trunk. Every setting I could find is set to trunk

Ken, I agree with you that it would seem the problem is in the radio not trunking correctly, perhaps a setting within the control channel? I see from your avatar you would recommend the 396 instead?

In addition, now it tracks fine some of the time. When it does it will follow the trunk for about 20 minutes and then fade back to constant scanning. Other times when I power up, the radio reads "ID SCAN" and sits on the control channel with no audio.

I think this radio is possesed, sound familiar to anyone?

Thanks for the responses, more are welcome

 

[smithken]

When the radio is in ID SCAN mode and just sitting on the control channel have you tried switching the radio to ID SEARCH? If the radio works in ID SEARCH but not ID SCAN then it sounds like there's a problem with programmed talk groups.

 

[iMONITOR]

From page 49 in your manual. Check to make sure you have programmed the proper "PLAN":

49​

Programming Motorola
Systems
​

Follow the instructions in this section to program information
for Motorola Type I, II, IIi Hybrid, and APCO 25 Digital
trunking systems.
​

Using Control Channel Programming
​

Your scanner has a powerful feature that lets you program in
only the control channels for Motorola 800 and 900 MHz
systems. This can greatly shorten the time it takes to program
system information.
​

2:SCAN OPTION​

​

→ 2:TRUNK → Select the bank​

→​

​

:CNTRL CH ONLY
​

For 900 MHz systems, you can then simply turn the feature
on or off.

For 800 MHz systems, you need to select the band
plan for the system:
​

1LAN1​

Use if the last three digits of​

​

all of the frequencies
used by the system end in 125, 375, 625, or 875.
​

2LAN2​

Use if the highest frequency used by the system is
above 866 MHz and if the last three digits end in 000,
125, 250, 375, 500, 625, 750, or 875.
​

3LAN3​

Use if the last three digits of all the frequencies in the
system end in 000, 250, 500, or 750.
​

4LAN4​

Use if the highest frequency in the system is below
866 MHz and if the last three digits end in 000, 125,
250, 375, 500, 625, 750, or 875.
​

5:OFF​

Select to turn off control channel programming for this
bank.
​

Note:​

​

​

• Many systems alternate control channels. To properly
track the system, you need to program all alternate
control channels.

• If you do not know all of the frequencies for a system,
but know at least one control channel, start by
selecting Plan 1 (the most common type). If you
notice that you seem to be missing transmissions
and replies, try each of the other plans until you​

find the one that works best.

 

[saxsin]

I have programmed both as a control plan only, and a traditional non control plan setup. Control plan only yields only a message stating "control channel only, not found" This occurs using any of the 4 offered plans. When the radio does follow the conversation (rare) it is using a non control only setup.

 

[garys]

I have programmed both as a control plan only, and a traditional non control plan setup. Control plan only yields only a message stating "control channel only, not found" This occurs using any of the 4 offered plans. When the radio does follow the conversation (rare) it is using a non control only setup.

If you answered this, I missed it so I'll ask. How far are you from Baltimore?

Gary

 

[JoeyC]

Sounds to me like you don't have a control frequency loaded, or if you do, you don't have all the potential controls in for when the system changes (if it does). Or you have poor reception on the control. The radio is not going to SCAN when trunking, it will read ID SCAN or ID SEARCH when trunking.

 

[saxsin]

The system stays on one control channel, with two backups that are never used. Could the control be overloading the radio?

Gary, I'm about 1 block from the harbor. Thanks...

 

[garys]

The system stays on one control channel, with two backups that are never used. Could the control be overloading the radio?

Gary, I'm about 1 block from the harbor. Thanks...

That would depend on how close you are to a tower, I guess. Or if you are close to a Nextel tower, you could have a problem too. I know a broadcast engineer who is also a very experienced scanner hobbyist. His apartment is very close to a Nextel tower and he has a lot of interference on the MA State Police system.

I always recommend, because often I find it's the solution to my problems, that you check the basics.

My offer to send you the ARC250 file stands. PM me if you're interested.

 

[Dewey]

Based on all that has been suggested so far, I would program all the system frequencies, and take it out of the control channel only mode. If you have all the system freqs (not just the control channels) and the bank set up correctly, your ID SEARCH should work at the least.

Dewey

EDIT: I forgot that we are not currently in the Maryland forum. You might find another 296 user in the Maryland forum who can help you further (I do get that far north often).

 

[saxsin]

Been slowly chipping away at this, seems like the radio is just not trunking!?

Anyone have this happen or have an idea why the radio would just not follow trunk? Yes, it's on

Thanks!