Affordable NXDN radio for EMS?

[LiftAssist]

Does anyone have any recommendations for a UHF (400-470Mhz) NXDN capable handheld that won't break the bank? My sibling is at a private EMS service that provides 911 coverage. Obviously access to a working handheld can be a matter of life or death for both patients and pre-hospital providers. Availability of handhelds is spotty at best and many employees end up buying their own radios. The system admin takes care of programming them and adding them to the network.

The model they were recommended is the Kenwood NX-300 which are available used on ebay w/ a mic and charger for around $350. I don't know much about NXDN radios as nobody in my region uses them. Are there any similarly affordable models, current or otherwise, that would be preferable to the NX-300 for every day use in potentially dangerous conditions?

Durability and reliability are the main concerns since the NX-300 looks pretty dinky. Their coverage is spotty in places so range is also important. Models that can handle P25 or other systems are a plus for job flexibility and future proofing, but I know that might be asking a lot for sub $1,000, never mind under $500.

Any guidance is appreciated, thanks!

 

[buddrousa]

Those are good radios at a good price also they are a commercial radio and will hold up good.

 

[mmckenna]

Does anyone have any recommendations for a UHF (400-470Mhz) NXDN capable handheld that won't break the bank? My sibling is at a private EMS service that provides 911 coverage. Obviously access to a working handheld can be a matter of life or death for both patients and pre-hospital providers. Availability of handhelds is spotty at best and many employees end up buying their own radios. The system admin takes care of programming them and adding them to the network.

The model they were recommended is the Kenwood NX-300 which are available used on ebay w/ a mic and charger for around $350. I don't know much about NXDN radios as nobody in my region uses them. Are there any similarly affordable models, current or otherwise, that would be preferable to the NX-300 for every day use in potentially dangerous conditions?

Durability and reliability are the main concerns since the NX-300 looks pretty dinky. Their coverage is spotty in places so range is also important. Models that can handle P25 or other systems are a plus for job flexibility and future proofing, but I know that might be asking a lot for sub $1,000, never mind under $500.

Any guidance is appreciated, thanks!

Stop.

Don't buy anything. UHF and NXDN are not the only pieces of information you need. The NX-300 comes in two models with different band splits. If you buy the wrong one, you cannot make it work like the other model. So, you absolutely, 100%, have to be totally sure of the actual frequencies you need and make sure you get a model that will cover those. Buying the wrong one will give you a nice paperweight.

Old radios can be abused and not work properly. Any used radio that is purchased really needs to be checked out by a competent tech. Not a ham radio operator. Not a guy with a scanner. Not a guy that knows CB radios. Any radio used for public safety needs to be reliable, and that means it needs to be properly aligned and functioning correctly. Don't trust e-bay sellers opinions that the "radio works fine".

If there is someone at the agency that programs them, you need to find out which models they can program. Buying a radio that they cannot program will not get you what you need. Buying the correct programming software/cables can be expensive. So, make sure you find out what they can program before buying anything.

Adding radios to a radio system requires approval from the licensee. That is an FCC rule. Before adding radios to someone else's radio system, even if the person using the radio is an employee, make 100% absolutely sure that they have permission in writing. Yes, I did read your comment about others doing that, and the agency programming radios. Just make sure all your ducks are in their rows before buying anything.

Make 100% sure you know if they are using conventional or trunking. If trunking is required, make sure the guy doing the programming has the system key and the knowledge to program the radio.

These radios, like the NX-300, can be programmed with passwords that will prevent reading and/or writing to them. Make 100% sure that the radio is NOT password locked. Getting it unlocked can be a challenge. Don't buy a used radio from anyone unless they can prove that it is not password locked.

If buying a used radio, all the accessories/batteries should be suspect. A used radio will likely have a used battery. Figure on tossing the included battery and buying a brand new one from a reputable dealer (NOT amazon or e-bay). The antenna should be replaced with one from Kenwood that is the correct model. Don't buy cheap Chinese antennas and expect the radio to work. Don't buy counterfeit antennas that say "Kenwood" on them either. Buy from a Kenwood dealer to make sure it's the right one. Just because it fits doesn't mean it's the correct antenna!.
Any included/used speaker mic should be suspect. They take a lot of abuse and we consider them consumables. Replace it with a brand new one if someones life is going to depend on it.

There are Kenwood radios that will do P25 and NXDN. Look at the NX-5300 line of radios. The P25 feature has to be activated by software, it doesn't come free with a new radio. It's going to be expensive for a new one. Even used ones with P25 can go for $1000 or more. While it's nice to have the capability for P25, make sure they actually need it before buying it. It is an expensive option. Right now, Kenwood is the only company that makes a P25 + NXDN capable radio. Keep in mind that the programming software for this radio is different than the programming software for the NX-300. If you buy one of these, the guy doing the programming will need to have the correct software.

If budget is tight, and they are ONLY running NXDN conventional and Analog, you can get a brand new NX-1300NUK radio for less than $300. (do not buy an NX-1300DUK, that's a DMR radio and won't work on the NXDN system without paying to upgrade it to NXDN) Less than $300. That's a NEW radio, not used, new antenna, new battery, new charger. It will do what you want as long as they don't need trunking. Doesn't have a lot of fancy features, but I'd trust a new radio a whole lot more than some beat to crap radio from e-Bay, especially if someones life depends on it.

 

[LiftAssist]

Stop.

Don't buy anything. UHF and NXDN are not the only pieces of information you need. The NX-300 comes in two models with different band splits. If you buy the wrong one, you cannot make it work like the other model. So, you absolutely, 100%, have to be totally sure of the actual frequencies you need and make sure you get a model that will cover those. Buying the wrong one will give you a nice paperweight.

Old radios can be abused and not work properly. Any used radio that is purchased really needs to be checked out by a competent tech. Not a ham radio operator. Not a guy with a scanner. Not a guy that knows CB radios. Any radio used for public safety needs to be reliable, and that means it needs to be properly aligned and functioning correctly. Don't trust e-bay sellers opinions that the "radio works fine".

If there is someone at the agency that programs them, you need to find out which models they can program. Buying a radio that they cannot program will not get you what you need. Buying the correct programming software/cables can be expensive. So, make sure you find out what they can program before buying anything.

Adding radios to a radio system requires approval from the licensee. That is an FCC rule. Before adding radios to someone else's radio system, even if the person using the radio is an employee, make 100% absolutely sure that they have permission in writing. Yes, I did read your comment about others doing that, and the agency programming radios. Just make sure all your ducks are in their rows before buying anything.

Make 100% sure you know if they are using conventional or trunking. If trunking is required, make sure the guy doing the programming has the system key and the knowledge to program the radio.

These radios, like the NX-300, can be programmed with passwords that will prevent reading and/or writing to them. Make 100% sure that the radio is NOT password locked. Getting it unlocked can be a challenge. Don't buy a used radio from anyone unless they can prove that it is not password locked.

If buying a used radio, all the accessories/batteries should be suspect. A used radio will likely have a used battery. Figure on tossing the included battery and buying a brand new one from a reputable dealer (NOT amazon or e-bay). The antenna should be replaced with one from Kenwood that is the correct model. Don't buy cheap Chinese antennas and expect the radio to work. Don't buy counterfeit antennas that say "Kenwood" on them either. Buy from a Kenwood dealer to make sure it's the right one. Just because it fits doesn't mean it's the correct antenna!.
Any included/used speaker mic should be suspect. They take a lot of abuse and we consider them consumables. Replace it with a brand new one if someones life is going to depend on it.

There are Kenwood radios that will do P25 and NXDN. Look at the NX-5300 line of radios. The P25 feature has to be activated by software, it doesn't come free with a new radio. It's going to be expensive for a new one. Even used ones with P25 can go for $1000 or more. While it's nice to have the capability for P25, make sure they actually need it before buying it. It is an expensive option. Right now, Kenwood is the only company that makes a P25 + NXDN capable radio. Keep in mind that the programming software for this radio is different than the programming software for the NX-300. If you buy one of these, the guy doing the programming will need to have the correct software.

If budget is tight, and they are ONLY running NXDN conventional and Analog, you can get a brand new NX-1300NUK radio for less than $300. (do not buy an NX-1300DUK, that's a DMR radio and won't work on the NXDN system without paying to upgrade it to NXDN) Less than $300. That's a NEW radio, not used, new antenna, new battery, new charger. It will do what you want as long as they don't need trunking. Doesn't have a lot of fancy features, but I'd trust a new radio a whole lot more than some beat to crap radio from e-Bay, especially if someones life depends on it.

Thanks so much for detailed breakdown! The service only seems to have two frequencies, both in the 460s. I'll have to double check whether they have to use anything else for inter-op with the fire departments that cover BLS in parts of the area. I didn't think new batteries were even available for the NX-300. Relying on used batteries is one of the bigger issues I had with them buying it. Appreciate the heads up about password locking as well.

Definitely agree that a new, supported radio from a trustworthy dealer is ideal. Just wasn't sure it was possible in their price range. Especially since most actual dealers don't list prices online. As much as I'd like them to have something a bit more robust and public safety oriented like the NX-5300, it doesn't look like it will be practical for their budget. I think you are right that the NX-1300NUK is their best bet. I don't love that the speaker mic has no screw or mechanism to keep it in place, but for under $300 I can't be picky. At least this way they'll have enough trustworthy batteries to hot swap in the rig.

I'll see if they can ask their radio guy whether he has the correct cables and software for the NX-1300NUK. I'll also check whether they use conventional or trunking. I believe they're conventional, but don't know enough about NXDN to say for sure. As for FCC compliance, its private EMS, so its 50/50 whether the company knows, let alone cares about FCC requirements for adding radios. I'll make sure my sibling bugs the licensee until they have the approval in writing. (I'm a little concerned that placing even the slightest burden on admin would cause them to ban personally owned radios. I guess then it'd be up to the union to have a backbone and demand the company provide working ones.)

 

[mmckenna]

Thanks so much for detailed breakdown! The service only seems to have two frequencies, both in the 460s. I'll have to double check whether they have to use anything else for inter-op with the fire departments that cover BLS in parts of the area. I didn't think new batteries were even available for the NX-300. Relying on used batteries is one of the bigger issues I had with them buying it. Appreciate the heads up about password locking as well.

OK, that would make sense as the UHF MED channels are in the 460 range.
The NX-300 comes in two UHF variants, 400-470MHz and 450-520MHz, so either version will work for those 2 460MHz channels.
The common UHF-MED channels are in that middle ground. So are the UTAC interop channels. Check to see what the other agencies are using and you might be good with either one.

Shouldn't be any problem finding the KNB-47 batteries they are quite popular. Kenwood can get them for you, or you can buy from 3rd party vendors like PowerProducts, which makes an excellent battery.

Definitely agree that a new, supported radio from a trustworthy dealer is ideal. Just wasn't sure it was possible in their price range. Especially since most actual dealers don't list prices online. As much as I'd like them to have something a bit more robust and public safety oriented like the NX-5300, it doesn't look like it will be practical for their budget. I think you are right that the NX-1300NUK is their best bet. I don't love that the speaker mic has no screw or mechanism to keep it in place, but for under $300 I can't be picky. At least this way they'll have enough trustworthy batteries to hot swap in the rig.

Yeah, the dealers won't post prices. However, as a public safety agency, they should fall under NASPO/ValuePoint contract pricing, or at least something similar.

This isn't a "public safety grade" radio, and shouldn't be confused as one, but for a basic radio it's good. The NX-300 and those higher tier radios have a 14 pin mic connector that is much more durable and designed for that sort of application.
But the NX-1300 does come with a plastic clip that will hold the 2 pin connector in place.

I'd say it's a good radio for most. Wether it would stand up to the abuses an EMT/paramedic can dish out, well, I'm not sure. A good 'take home' radio if they are on call. Duty radio, maybe you'd want something a bit more durable.

I'll see if they can ask their radio guy whether he has the correct cables and software for the NX-1300NUK. I'll also check whether they use conventional or trunking. I believe they're conventional, but don't know enough about NXDN to say for sure. As for FCC compliance, its private EMS, so its 50/50 whether the company knows, let alone cares about FCC requirements for adding radios. I'll make sure my sibling bugs the licensee until they have the approval in writing. (I'm a little concerned that placing even the slightest burden on admin would cause them to ban personally owned radios. I guess then it'd be up to the union to have a backbone and demand the company provide working ones.)

Ah, OK private company might change the pricing since they may not qualify for the good multi-state contracts.

NX-300 is a good solid radio. That's about it for the higher end NXDN UHF radios. NX-5300 is going to be expensive, even with just NXDN and no P25.

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That company is pretty reliable, but you're back to the $325/$350 price range.

 

[tweiss3]

The first thing is find out which band you need, but like mentioned above, for only the two 460 frequencies, you are good with either band split.

The NX300 is a good radio, but it's the same money used as the NX-1300 new, without any improvements. They have the same IP54/55 rating for water/dust, but new comes with a warranty.

If you wanted to step up to IP67 water proof rating, the NX3320 is about $800 list for the limited keypad model. The NX5300 is going to be significantly more new.

 

[Soundy]

In addition to all the other excellent advice here, I'd offer one tidbit from my own experience: try contacting the manufacturers and see if they'll do special pricing for EMS. I know here in Canada, Kenwood regularly donates radios for things like EMS, SAR, etc., or gives very good discounted prices (going through select dealers). They've also donated to a variety of fundraising efforts our NPO has run (including about a $14,000 package of radios and JVC A/V gear for the big 2021 floods).

Hey, the worst they can do is say no, and you're back where you started...

 

[wd8chl]

Remember as well-if they are actually using NXDN, only Kenwood and Icom make radios for that. Moto, Harris, and the chinese junk do not.
So if they're truly using NXDN (btw, MED channels should NOT-they are supposed to be analog ONLY), then you have to
stay with Kenwood, or maybe Icom.

 

[northstarfire0693]

If you go the NX300 route. I used one for years in the fire service. County issued radio on a Nexedge trunking system. The radio worked great and never had an issue with them. The entire county used them and still does to this day. Very good radio.

 

[AM909]

Ditto what @mmckenna so eloquently wrote

For flexibility in future use or expansion, you would really do better to have the high-split radio (450-5xx) than the low-split, as there is nothing below 450 that you would likely ever need (420/430-450 is amateur and the rest is Fed).

Using the same radios as the co-workers makes a lot of sense if/when you want to be able to borrow a battery or other accessories. It also helps that the radios are already known to the radio shop and they don't have to do anything new to make it work (codeplug, software, cable, learning curve, etc.).

Buying from a dealer should get you a warranty and clean radio. It's worth paying up a bit, IMO. I'm pretty biased, though.

 

[radioman2008]

if you have the option to buy a lower split, do that because if you end up upgrading again, that radio will be more valuable to the ham radio community, and you can get more for it.

also, ive played with Icom and Kenwood Nxdn radios for years.
Icom portables F3161and 4161 DS/T F4261DS and the mobiles F5061D F6061D and recently the F4400D
and Kenwood NX5300 UHF

I would stay away from all the old F3161/F4161/F4261 portables ive worked with hundreds of them and there is a high rate of finals Buring out. my very first radio blew its final, repaired by Icom, then failed again out of warranty. then i bought a huge lot of 200-300 and at least 1/3 of them had blown finals, many had blown and distorted speakers.
recently i picked up a couple of Icom F4400D NXDN portables, they have display problems (still work visually), drawing 600mah idle, and getting hot. talked to a dealer and he said the screens have failed and need replacement. I looked on eBay and there's a lot being sold with display problems. so, it looks like Icom failed with that series too.
the Icom F5061/6061 mobiles aren't really bad, they are good basic NXDN mobiles, but they do flake out from time to time requiring rebooting to operate again. the display is double stacked, you can set the top line to be the zone and the lower line as the channel name.

my Kenwood NX5300 is the best, had it for 5 years, came with NXDN and I upgraded it to DMR for 60$ its a solid radio. I also got the SD card recording feature upgrade, it's nice to be able to review the past audio and store it for history.
the software sucks tho. It has to be registered to one computer and when that computer hard drive crashes, you are SOL, you cant reinstall the software without buying a new copy and registering that. if this has changed id love to know that.

also, the software requires you to enter all the frequency info in one area, then go-to another area to set up how you see the display and channel and organization. its literally double the work, just like the old xts3000/astro spectra software.
still, I love my NX5300!

 

[dryfb]

It has to be registered to one computer and when that computer hard drive crashes, you are SOL, you cant reinstall the software without buying a new copy and registering that. if this has changed id love to know that.

You can call Kenwood support and get the key de-registered from the crashed computer. I still hate that that's how KW went about it but they do have a solution if your PC dies.

 

[buddrousa]

It is almost impossible to get Kenwood to REISSUE your Software key so you are told to keep the Software Deregistered when not in use
So yes Kenwood has changed its Pollicies with Software for NX- Radios.

 

[DeoVindice]

It is almost impossible to get Kenwood to REISSUE your Software key so you are told to keep the Software Deregistered when not in use
So yes Kenwood has changed its Pollicies with Software for NX- Radios.

Exactly, the deauthentication process takes about fifteen seconds. It's the smartest way to handle the newer NX software.

 

[EWC_BDN]

The making a different Key file for every system for every copy of D1 and D3 is the worst part IMO. The moving them around is easy enough and computers failing should be rare. The everyday challenges are more annoying.