Antenna Analyzer advice wanted- Which one should I Buy?

[jwt873]

If you're not using Rohde & Schwarz equipment, you're a nobody... https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/us/product/zph-productstartpage_63493-363457.html

 

[speedway_navigator]

I own 2 Planar R54s by Copper mountain technology.
https://coppermountaintech.com/vna/r54-1-port-vna/

I use these when I teach antenna and line sweeping at IWCE. Like Fred mentioned way back at the start of this thread, using a laptop for control and display is a big deal to me. I can put this and a small tablet in a pants pocket and have both hands free to climb a ladder to test an antenna on the roof.

Another advantage is no phase stable cable needed, this is small enough to leave hanging from the coax with a much more flexible USB cable to the PC.

It also makes it easy to show the screen on a projector in class. Copper mountain just announced they have a Linux version of the software.

 

[prcguy]

Better than an Anritsu but still no match for the mighty Agilent Field Fox. The unit I use is fully loaded, goes to 50GHz and cost north of $100k, and that's with a friendly Agilent rep. Its an entire microwave lab in a box no bigger than the R&S you linked.

If you're not using Rohde & Schwarz equipment, you're a nobody... https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/us/product/zph-productstartpage_63493-363457.html

 

[Project25_MASTR]

AEA's last Beta unit just got approved for production on their two port VNA on their Liberator line (which isn't up on the website yet but you may have seen the demo's over the last few months). What makes it different is it's software definable architecture but it currently has the VNA, RL bridge, TDR, FDR, spectrum analyzer (which is fairly quick), and a tracking generator. First revision is only DC to 1.3 GHz but the second release is going to be through the 6 GHz microwave band. The 1.3 GHz version is around $2500.

 

[Golay]

Rohde & Schwarz

If you're not using Rohde & Schwarz equipment, you're a nobody... https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/us/product/zph-productstartpage_63493-363457.html

I got a funny store about them.

Me and a buddy from work went to an electrical trade show at a Holiday Inn that was only about a 20 minute drive. So we went in the middle of the shift in our work clothes, boots, safety glasses, the whole bit. Probably had our radios on us too.

Newark, Siemens, GE Fanuc, Allen-Bradley, all the big names are there. So the other booths are all friendly, laughing and talking with us, asking where we work, handing us all sort of goodies when they realize our company spends millions on industrial control equipment. The rep from Newark knew me already.

So we get to the Rohde & Schwarz booth. You would of thought we were the most low life, bottom feeding bums on the street from the way they looked and the attitude we got from them. Like we were the janitors or something.

 

[freddaniel]

The Rohde & Schwarz products and the FieldFox are wonderful products used by the best and brightest commercial & laboratory companies, but the Anritsu SiteMaster line has been there for many years longer than all of them as Anritsu bought out Wiltron who developed the SiteMaster line. The S331B is commercial grade and now sells used under $1,000, and usually for $500. Like all other PROFESSIONAL units, it measures SWR/Return Loss, cable attenuation, and has TDR which measures and locates dents & kinks in the coax. It will print the display info also, for client verification & historical comparison. You do not need to spend $5,000 up to have a GREAT commercial grade instrument.
Sadly, the S331 series only work down to 25 MHz, but if you need DC to 1GHz, consider the AimUHF at Array Solutions, new for $690.

 

[prcguy]

Yes, need to get back to reality on an affordable unit. This is a new version of what I standardized on and I recommend this over anything costing up to $1k new and this thing only costs $277 new. It covers 1Mhz to 1300Mhz, perfect for most amateur use and will sweep from a few KHz to full band showing VSWR, return loss in dB and nearly everything that other antenna analyzers show.

Plus its a two port unit and you can sweep through things like filters to get the frequency response or a length of cable to get the loss, etc. Its very accurate and very cheap for what it does. Its a real vector impedance analyzer like the Array Solutions but with built in display so you don't need to drag around a computer. I've purchased from this same US vendor and had excellent results.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/N2061SA-NF...m=372293859426&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

I was just using my older 1 to 200Mhz unit yesterday on a friends 130ft end fed 80m where my Comet SAA-500 would not work because it was getting blitzed from a local AM broadcast station and the AAI worked perfect in the same environment.

The Rohde & Schwarz products and the FieldFox are wonderful products used by the best and brightest commercial & laboratory companies, but the Anritsu SiteMaster line has been there for many years longer than all of them as Anritsu bought out Wiltron who developed the SiteMaster line. The S331B is commercial grade and now sells used under $1,000, and usually for $500. Like all other PROFESSIONAL units, it measures SWR/Return Loss, cable attenuation, and has TDR which measures and locates dents & kinks in the coax. It will print the display info also, for client verification & historical comparison. You do not need to spend $5,000 up to have a GREAT commercial grade instrument.
Sadly, the S331 series only work down to 25 MHz, but if you need DC to 1GHz, consider the AimUHF at Array Solutions, new for $690.

 

[vagrant]

Yes, need to get back to reality on an affordable unit. This is a new version of what I standardized on and I recommend this over anything costing up to $1k new and this thing only costs $277 new. It covers 1Mhz to 1300Mhz, perfect for most amateur use and will sweep from a few KHz to full band showing VSWR, return loss in dB and nearly everything that other antenna analyzers show.

Plus its a two port unit and you can sweep through things like filters to get the frequency response or a length of cable to get the loss, etc. Its very accurate and very cheap for what it does. Its a real vector impedance analyzer like the Array Solutions but with built in display so you don't need to drag around a computer. I've purchased from this same US vendor and had excellent results.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/N2061SA-NF...m=372293859426&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

Thanks for this. Looks like fun and worth a try at the price for amateur stuff. I'll do some comparisons with other more costly analyzers and see what's what. Crazy small and charging via USB is just wild comparatively. I hope it is accurate.

 

[vagrant]

Okay, that N2061SA arrived today. I ordered it on 10/19 from Amazon ($268) and it arrived six days later from China. Looks like they spent $30 to ship it and it was packed well enough. Initial testing is promising. This will take a bit to give it a shakedown, especially using that other port.

 

[prcguy]

Its a very powerful tool, I rarely fire up my spectrum analyzer with tracking generator to tune filters or duplexers and use the N2061SA instead. I find its more reliable than my Comet CAA500 when there are high power transmitters around that will blitz the Comet. I can also show you how to use it to test the effectiveness of choke baluns and the impedance ratio of other baluns.

All you need now is a little case for it and some adapters from SMA to everything.

Okay, that N2061SA arrived today. I ordered it on 10/19 from Amazon ($268) and it arrived six days later from China. Looks like they spent $30 to ship it and it was packed well enough. Initial testing is promising. This will take a bit to give it a shakedown, especially using that other port.

 

[vagrant]

I doubt I will sleep for the next couple of hours as I go through the hoops testing things. This device really works. I'm looking through various notch and bandpass filters and it reflects what the particular filter should be doing. I am a bit in disbelief at the size and cost of this thing for what it is doing. For amateur stuff this device appears to be adequate thus far. I have swept various antennas from 1.8 to 1200 MHz already. The numbers I am seeing are what I already saw using other analyzers.

The device included a USB cable and AC charger that kicks out 1A as well as a spare SMA connector to solder in. That's pretty cool. I have SMA pigtails and handful of adapters already, but the adapter bin is looking thin as many are in use. I have had to wheel and deal with some BNC adapters at times so far. The local electronic store that sold proper adapters and such closed business last month.

You're right, this thing deserves a proper little case and a USB battery, along with some dedicated adapters and pigtails.

Okay, now it is time to look at a spare UHF mobile duplexer and then some VHF cans next.

* Yes, I would like to know how to use it to test choke balun effectiveness and impedance ratio of other baluns. That info would assist with upcoming endeavors.

 

[AK9R]

I find its more reliable than my Comet CAA500 when there are high power transmitters around that will blitz the Comet.

I don't want to turn this into a Comet CAA-500 thread, but are you talking about the original CAA-500 or the CAA-500MARKII?

 

[mancow]

Thanks for this. Looks like fun and worth a try at the price for amateur stuff. I'll do some comparisons with other more costly analyzers and see what's what. Crazy small and charging via USB is just wild comparatively. I hope it is accurate.

I wish this was available when I got my other two. Back then they only had the HF 1-137 and separate 137 - 2700 models so I had to get both. They work amazingly well though. They are definitely worth the money.

 

[prcguy]

You can turn it into anything you want except an MFJ thread. I have the original CAA-500.

I don't want to turn this into a Comet CAA-500 thread, but are you talking about the original CAA-500 or the CAA-500MARKII?

 

[vagrant]

Calibration

How often have you had to calibrate the N2061SA? I'm wondering how quickly I will need an open/short/load kit.

 

[prcguy]

Probably never.

How often have you had to calibrate the N2061SA? I'm wondering how quickly I will need an open/short/load kit.

 

[prcguy]

Here is a picture of my VNA checking a common mode choke for isolation using BNC to wire adapters. Before wrapping the ferrite core with coax I wrap it with wire about the same size as the coax then sweep across the desired range (1 to 30MHz in this case) in S21 mode. This particular 31 mix core with 7 turns of wire has about 24.6dB isolation at 1Mhz peaking at 37.9dB at 13.4Mhz and finally 32.9dB at 30MHz. So for 80 through 10m you have a minimum of 33dB isolation.

Not too bad but it was better by a few dB with eight turns and I already made one with eight turns of RG-316 Teflon coax for a project. Comparing this type of choke to a string of beads over some coax, that will only get you about 20dB isolation on a good day with the wind behind it and way less on lower freqs.

You can start this type of measurement with a straight wire between the adapters and it should show less than .1dB loss across the HF band as a sanity check. You can check commercial chokes but you would have to make very short connections to the outer braid or connectors at each end and long lead lengths will skew the measurement some.

For testing baluns to see what ratio they might be just get a 47 ohm, 220 ohm, 470ohm, 680 ohm and 820 ohm carbon resistor, then connect the 50 ohm side of the balun like you would an antenna and check with each resistor value at the output of the balun. These resistor values will be good for finding a 1:1, 4:1, 9:1, 12:1 and 16:1. Sweep 1 to 30MHz and when you find a value that gives a near perfect match across the baluns frequency range you now have the probable output impedance.

* Yes, I would like to know how to use it to test choke balun effectiveness and impedance ratio of other baluns. That info would assist with upcoming endeavors.

 

[freddaniel]

An open/short/load kit for SMA can be had inexpensive with new parts from Amphenol RF. The 50-ohm termination is pn 132360 under $3, and is 2 Watt, gold plated, good to 18GHz with VSWR under 1.3 maximum.
The Short is pn 132331 under $3 and is gold plated. For a Open, simply leave the connector unterminated. Below 1 GHz will not matter.
The SMA connectors on the N2081SA are unhandy for field work, and will break-off with the use of adapters. I suggest using two RG400 cables with SMA male and type-N female about 30" long. To use your SMA OSL kit, simply buy N male to SMA female adapters. Even the cheap adapters from China work OK up to 1 GHz.

 

[vagrant]

Thank you prcguy. That is the information I needed to expand upon for upcoming projects. I use six mix 31 beads on LMR-400 coax for the hexbeam. Now and I am curious if things can be improved there. Not that I am noticing any problems now. For my inverted V OCF I have a 150' run of LMR-400. I have not observed a difference with or without an RF choke on that. Also, thank you for the balun testing information as well. I have a few to test.

Thank you Fred for those part numbers and details. That saved me plenty of time and effort.

At this point in the hobby I am at 1.2GHz and down. VHF/UHF contesting allows me to analyze different antennas at different locations via QSO. Beacons are also quite helpful.

 

[speedway_navigator]

An open/short/load kit for SMA can be had inexpensive with new parts from Amphenol RF.

I've compared my Dayton hamfest loads to a high dollar OSL and found mine to be within 0.1 Ohms.
At under 1 GHz would a solder bridge short be any different from an OSL short?