Antenna position on mast

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TongSlinger

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I have a 65' foot antenna tower constructed like the one below only made from solid steel and not tube. I am not going to get any higher on the tower that about 40'. How far does the antenna need to be away from the mast so it doesn't interfere with the receive capabilities of the antenna? Will there be a weak or dead spot when the tower is between my receiving antenna and the antenna of the transmitting station I'm trying to receive?

Thanks


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popnokick

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What frequencies is the antenna operating at? Ideally space would be 1/4 wavelength at lowest frequency.
 

mmckenna

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Yeah, it's frequency dependent. Spacing a 1/4 wave or more is a good idea.

It can make the antenna a bit directional and could make it a bit deaf in the direction of the tower.
Most tower manufacturers make antenna stand off brackets specifically for this purpose.
 

TongSlinger

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Thanks for the replies, 144-850 MHz are the range I'll be scanning and 155 - 159 is the range that is the greatest distance away.
 

prcguy

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At 1/4 to 1/2 wavelength out from a tower (1.5 to 3ft at 155MHz) a vertical antenna will go from a very directional 2-element Yagi type pattern to bi-directional (figure 8) to a 4 lobe clover leaf pattern. For omni directional coverage I would get the antenna at least 2 full wavelengths away at the lowest frequency and more if possible away from the tower. 2 wavelengths would be about 12ft(!) at 155MHz. Even at 2 wavelengths you will have a very disturbed omni pattern.

OK, so 2 feet (or more) away from the tower face, and put the antenna on the side facing the signal that is farthest away you are trying to hear.
 
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mmckenna

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Thanks for the correction. I think two feet is what I did on UHF with a folded dipole trying to get a cardioid pattern. I guess my brain wasn't fully engaged this morning.
 

MUTNAV

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How about several antennas spaced around the tower and a combiner?

Thanks
Joel
 

prcguy

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That gets complicated. When you split a coax to two identical antennas a number of things can happen. If they are at the perfect spacing and pick up the same signal in phase, meaning both antennas see the same wave front at the same time, then you can get up to 3dB gain over a single antenna.

If the two antennas do not see the same signal equally, as in around a tower, then you can have anywhere from a little gain to lots of loss. You can start with about 3dB loss in the splitter then if the antenna spacing causes phase cancelation the loss can go through the roof. For example if you have two dipoles at 155MHz spaced 3ft apart and in line with the transmitting station where the signal will hit one antenna first then the next antenna 1/2 wavelength away or 180 deg out of phase, it can cancel 20dB or more. The signal hitting both antennas can be very strong but most of it can disappear due to phase cancelation. Add a third or fourth antenna it gets even more complicated.

So if you want to experiment with multiple antennas around a tower, get ready for a little fun and a lot of disappointment. If you want a hassle free install just put the antenna at the top of the tower and in the clear. Or if you only need reception in one major direction using the tower as a reflector can be your friend.

yes... whatever he was going to use X3.

thanks
Joel
 

popnokick

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So which is more difficult: combining 3 antennas around a tower or a 12 foot (2 wavelengths) spacer arm? Maybe there are some standard antenna standoff arms available... ahh yes, already mentioned by mmckenna in this thread.
 

MUTNAV

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That gets complicated. When you split a coax to two identical antennas a number of things can happen. If they are at the perfect spacing and pick up the same signal in phase, meaning both antennas see the same wave front at the same time, then you can get up to 3dB gain over a single antenna.

If the two antennas do not see the same signal equally, as in around a tower, then you can have anywhere from a little gain to lots of loss. You can start with about 3dB loss in the splitter then if the antenna spacing causes phase cancelation the loss can go through the roof. For example if you have two dipoles at 155MHz spaced 3ft apart and in line with the transmitting station where the signal will hit one antenna first then the next antenna 1/2 wavelength away or 180 deg out of phase, it can cancel 20dB or more. The signal hitting both antennas can be very strong but most of it can disappear due to phase cancelation. Add a third or fourth antenna it gets even more complicated.

So if you want to experiment with multiple antennas around a tower, get ready for a little fun and a lot of disappointment. If you want a hassle free install just put the antenna at the top of the tower and in the clear. Or if you only need reception in one major direction using the tower as a reflector can be your friend.
Very true. Maybe identifying any sources of noise, and using the mast as a way of of nulling it may be better.

Thanks
Joel
 

Ubbe

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1/4 wave length are probably what gets used the most and increasing distance moves the direction to the sides, like trying to cover a railroad track.

Antenna-mast-distance.jpg


/Ubbe
 
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