antenna spacing on roof

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tomhrrs69

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I have a 2011 Ram Quad cab with 2 antennas on the roof, the radioshack multi-band mag mount for my scanner and a 1/4 wave mag mount antenna for my Motorola radio. I was wondering what would be the best location to mount both antennas, and how much space in between each one.
 

mass-man

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The more the better. Probably far right and left sides of the cab. Don't want that scanner being fried by the RF from the Moto two way.
 

W2NJS

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The antennas should be a minimum of a quarter-wave apart, based on the lowest frequency you use. You figure this by taking the figure 234 and dividing it by that frequency, which give you the quarter wave length in feet, which you multiply by 12 to get the answer in inches. So if the lowest frequency in use is 151.400 mHz dividing that into 234 gives you 1.5455 feet which multiplied by 12 gives you 18.54 inches.
 

tomhrrs69

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thanks for the replies. I ended up putting them on opposite ends of the cab, right between the front and rear doors. They work pretty good, but unfortunately, I had a blond moment...forget that the antennas were up there, went through the McDonalds drivethru, and ended up hitting the antennas against the clearance bar, lol....only damage done was to my pride, lol...
 

TrevDog

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Thanks for the info- super helpful. Let me ask a question, though: Does the lowest frequency in use mean on TX or RX? I assume TX, but I don't want to screw anything up...
 

mm

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A good rule of thumb is that no matter what the frequency of operation is that at a spacing of 1 wavelength, at any frequency, the attenuation will be ~ 22 db with antennas in the same plane and in the near field.

Then each time you double the distance from this initial 1 wavelength separation the power decreases by another 1/4 or 6 dB.

As an example lets assume 150 MHz or 2 meters wavelength(6.56 feet):

At a separation of 2 meters (one wavelength at 150MHz) the power is down 22 dB from the transmitters output power at the antenna.

At 2 wavelengths spacing, 4 meters or 13.12 feet, between antennas of the same band (150MHz) with lets assume 0 db gain antennas, in a perfect environment, the attenuation would be approximately 28 dB.

So the signal would be 28 dB down from the transmitter output power into a 0 dB gain antenna at 13 feet.

So if you are transmitting with 50 watts (47dBm) at 150MHz and receiving in the same band, with 0dB gain antennas at each end, that are only 6.5 feet spaced apart on the roof of your vehicle then the power into your scanner could be around (47-22)dBm or 25 dBm or 317 milliwatts, which may cause damage to the scanner.

At ~ 13 feet spacing it would be a further 6 db down or around 79 milliwatts which the scanner may be able to handle.

Now whether or not the scanner has a narrow front end tuned filter that further attenuates an in band transmitter signal at the scanners antenna is a different story but these would be the worst case levels.


Mike
 

LtDoc

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The best distance between antennas is the distance that's most practical given where you are mounting them. On a typical vehicle they will affect each other, but usually that affect can be minimized or compensated for. One aspect of that is that if they can wiggle around (wind etc.) and touch each other, they are probably too close together.
It's a fairly good idea to not put the transmit frequency(s) of your Motorola radio in the scanner (and I'll bet you can understand why).
You've already discovered the clearance problem! Just keep it in mind, don't bend those antennas more than they can 'stand'. That's not as big a problem as it may seem at times, but they do have limits, and now you do too.
Have fun.
- 'Doc
 

FFPM571

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How about we dont confuse him with all the techincal talk and tell him a minimum of 18-24 inches apart. That is a hard and fast rule that I and almost every shop, person or RF engineer has told me and has been proven to work. Since its a Ram quad cab One in the back of the cab. one in the middle of the roof. Dont use magnetic mounts. Use a good quality NMO style mount with the antenna of your choice. If your worried about clearance issues they make antennas with spring bases.
 

kb2vxa

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"How about we dont confuse him with all the technical talk..."

My thoughts exactly, the simple answer is as far apart as practical. Oh and don't remind me of my parking garage misadventure with a roof mounted VHF 5/8 wave. BONG scratch BONG scratch... OOPS! No big deal, the noise gently reminded me to stop and put the 1/4 wave on.
 

gunmasternd

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"How about we dont confuse him with all the technical talk..."

My thoughts exactly, the simple answer is as far apart as practical. Oh and don't remind me of my parking garage misadventure with a roof mounted VHF 5/8 wave. BONG scratch BONG scratch... OOPS! No big deal, the noise gently reminded me to stop and put the 1/4 wave on.

or just post pictures and we can guide him from there :)
 
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