prcguy
Member
The 2X4 SAR is not a bad choice for mobile use but not for a base antenna.
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Antenna SWR Help
- Thread starter parkerd619
- Start date
rf_patriot200
Active Member
Yeah, afterwards I realized that's not feasible in his situation, and was thinking about how I use the 2x4 sar as a one of my Base antennas. I'm in a High Rise complex, so using antennas here is tricky.
One of the best base station antennae is the Laird FG4602 5 dB gain Omni and the VSWRS are usually very very low with this antenna providing that you are not using cheap Chinese crap cable and connectors from Amazon. You should be using good LMR400 cable such as Times Microwave or M & P, and quality connectors such as Amphenol N connectors with a properly grounded Polyphase Arrestor if you want a good base station installation.
If you are trying to go with a mobile type antenna, you be surprised how well a Midland MXTA26 6 dB gain onmi NMO antenna well give you one of the best VSWRs for GMRS freqs. without any tuning. But that antenna is only good for GMRS freqs.
Multiband HAM antennae are the worst for good VSWRs on GMRS freqs. Close enough really doesn't cut especially given the inherited cable loss on UHF freqs. You need all the help you can get with using an antenna as a base station antenna and when the cable run is more than 15 feet and that is why you should be using quality made cable, connectors, and antenna to make up for the loss in the cable or you won't have much power coming emitting from the antenna and your FARZ will be very disappointing.
If you are trying to go with a mobile type antenna, you be surprised how well a Midland MXTA26 6 dB gain onmi NMO antenna well give you one of the best VSWRs for GMRS freqs. without any tuning. But that antenna is only good for GMRS freqs.
Multiband HAM antennae are the worst for good VSWRs on GMRS freqs. Close enough really doesn't cut especially given the inherited cable loss on UHF freqs. You need all the help you can get with using an antenna as a base station antenna and when the cable run is more than 15 feet and that is why you should be using quality made cable, connectors, and antenna to make up for the loss in the cable or you won't have much power coming emitting from the antenna and your FARZ will be very disappointing.
On the GP kit you'd have better luck starting with a 1/4 wave uhf whip for GMRS. They are dirt cheap and you already have the other stuff. Get on the air with the 1/4 wave then work to get a good GMRS base antenna. Many of the antennas other than 1/4 wave will require some tuning unless specifically made for LMR so you need to understand that also. Order a $5.00 1/4 wave to start
And at that height it may be all you ever need.
Another thought is if he/she is just transmitting to nearby repeaters, and not to mobiles in the distance, a mobile type antenna will suffice just fine to get the job done.
After reading some of the comments, I will be sending the SBB7 back. In the past couple of days, I've learned a lot about antennas. It seems that I jumped the gun and put the cart before the horse. Live and learn I suppose.
I'm using M&P Hyperflex 13 with their UHF connectors. At least I got that part right. Now I just need to focus on getting the right antenna for my application. It seems that I've still got some learning to do in regards to the antenna. I'm looking at the Tram 1184. I'm aware that it'll need to be trimmed. But, It's a base antenna rather than a mobile NMO mount antenna.
My reason for using the mobile antenna in the beginning was to just be able to get on the air. I ordered an SWR meter that arrived yesterday and found that the antenna is not suitable for GMRS. Again, I'm still learning.
I appreciate all of the comments and advice, they'll get me moving in the right direction.
That is the plan. I'm still in the antenna learning curve. I learned a lot just by having an SWR meter.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
Why?
That's a dual band amateur antenna, and you'll be right back in the same fix you are now with high SWR on GMRS.
Also, it's not an NMO mount.
Also, it's a Tram. Tram = Cheap Chinese Antenna. Yeah, I know the hams love them, but you can do better than Tram, easily. And while we're at it, skip the "Bingfu" brand.
Seriously, get a decent antenna brand, not the Chinese stuff.
A base antenna would last much longer in that application. But if you really want to do NMO, go with Larsen, EMWave, Laird, or one of the commercial LMR brands. Might cost you slightly more, but it'll outlast the Chinese stuff.
What would you recommend? I can change the connector.
The Tram is an Amateur radio antenna that covers 140 to 170 MHz VHF/430 to 450 MHz UHF Dual-Band Antenna. The upper end of the frequency coverage doesn't come close to the GMRS band. For GMRS you need and antenna that covers up to 470 MHz, not 450 MHz.
It is not NMO compatible.
I would recommend following @mmckenna's advice.
Ok. I've got a few Laird 450-470 phantom antennas lying around. What are your thoughts on those. I don't believe I mentioned, but my antenna is about 35 feet in the air.
prcguy
Member
Waste of time, get a base antenna with actual gain and not the made up gain figures from many companies. They will have you believe their little 24” tall mobile antenna has more gain than an 8ft real antenna.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
Yeah, I agree, get the base antenna.
Phantom antennas are often slightly less than unity gain (that of a 1/4 wave) on UHF so I'd not install one of those.
Ok. I'll leave you guys alone after this. How about this one? This one appears to be designed specifically for GMRS use. Comet CA-712EFC
Huh, I have several Phantom Antennae, a few from Midland, MXTA 25s, that are 3 dB gain and a few from Laird some non-ground plane and some requiring a ground plane. The Lairds requiring a ground plane are 3 dB gain and I don't remember if the non-ground planes are 3 dB or unity gain.
Are you saying they are truly not or even close to perform as a gain antenna?
I have never had any performance problems with them in any of my travels even in the rural mountain areas in Arizona and the San Jacinto Mountains above Palm Springs in California.
prcguy
Member
A full size 1/2 wave dipole, which is about 12” tall for GMRS would be a 0dBd gain antenna. A 1/4 wave whip which is about 6” has a little less gain by about 1dB or about -1dBd gain. How can a 4 inch tall Phantom antenna have 3dB gain on GMRS? Easy, it’s a lie. How can a 32 inch tall Midland MXTA26 GMRS mobile antenna have 6dB gain when it takes about 8 feet of antenna to actually reach 6dBd gain at UHF? It’s just a bigger lie.
It’s not clever engineering that produces these impossible gain numbers it’s clever advertising. But I shouldn’t reward liars with the complement that they are in any way clever when they try to steal part of the market by false advertising.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
Comet traditionally makes amateur radio oriented antennas. I know this one is tuned for LMR/GMRS. I have no experience with it, but you might want to throw your net a bit wider and look at the companies that make LMR antennas.
When I was active on GMRS, I ran one of these for many years: Laird TE Connectivity FG4500 UHF GMRS 450-470 MHz Base Repeater Antenna
It's a unity gain antenna, so no gain, but is small, light and worked just fine for me in a small valley where the hills kept range pretty short and I used repeaters to get anywhere beyond the hilltops.
You can get higher gain versions.
No, not a top of the line commercial antenna, but worked fine for residential use.
