Anyone using ICOM 7/800 public safety radios?

[12dbsinad]

That’s too bad; from what I’ve been told it’s the same radio as the 3400DT NXDN radio, which is excellent. I have one and love it.

Yes, it's the same radio. Same with the mobiles. We run some on a conventional simulcast P25 system (VHF) and I'll tell you for the money they are hard to beat. Shame they are the way they are, it's like they hit a brick wall because at one point they hit the P25 market pretty hard. Then they kinda went silent.

 

[W2GLD]

FYI, the Icom F7040/F7540 700/800 MHz radios, still, as of the latest firmware v4.20, DO NOT SUPPORT Failsoft or ISSI roaming and continue to have performance issues in Phase 2, especially with encryption and patches. As a result, MPSCS is in the process of terminating approval status of the Icom radios due to failure of delivery of functionality for over three years now; they were provisionally approved with the expectation of delivering final functionality.

 

[dispatchgeek]

FYI, the Icom F7040/F7540 700/800 MHz radios, still, as of the latest firmware v4.20, DO NOT SUPPORT Failsoft or ISSI roaming and continue to have performance issues in Phase 2, especially with encryption and patches. As a result, MPSCS is in the process of terminating approval status of the Icom radios due to failure of delivery of functionality for over three years now; they were provisionally approved with the expectation of delivering final functionality.

I saw that in the last approved radio document they sent out. It blows my mind.

 

[MTS2000des]

Well, maybe that's why Icom is blowing us off. We use ISSI extensively as part of a regional overlay for interoperability. No failsoft by talk group either. Oh well. It's MSI, L3H, JVC Kenwood, Tait and Relm. Too bad- Icom builds a great product, they just aren't serious about P25 trunking.

 

[kv5e]

With ICOM, NIH (not invented here) is strong.

 

[Project25_MASTR]

With ICOM, NIH (not invented here) is strong.

Kenwood has a historically similar experience with P25. Go look at all the known issues the TK-5x10/5x20 series radios had with P25 that still isn't fully resolved in the NX-5000's. Johnson on the other hand (who uses the exact same hardware minus the top display addition to the NX-5000 chassis on the VP6000 and the VP8000) has always managed to get their bugs sorted out in semi-decent time frames.

 

[12dbsinad]

Too many bean counters, not enough engineers...

All the real engineers are at Icom home company in Japan. Icom America is basically just a distribution center. I'm not even sure who the P25 team consists of anymore if there even is such a thing.

 

[PACNWDude]

+1 on known issues with Kenwood P25 radios (as well as Icom). I used to work for the JVC/Kenwood Group, and now steer my current employer away from Kenwood (with some NX-5xxx models in use for one specific use case)....as they tried all sort of marketing plans for P25 "capable" radios (that is where the grant money goes). Then when you try to implement P25 software, you find that the radio has to go back for a hardware upgrade for it to really work, and what you get back is a whole new board.

Kenwood makes a good amateur radio (flown on the fleet of Space Shuttles and International Space Station), while Icom is good for aviation and Marine HF/VHF. For P25 I will stick with Motorola and Harris in some cases (but mostly Motorola).

 

[KevinC]

Let's try to keep this about Icom and not Motorola, Harris/GE/MA-COM/Tyco/Commnet/L3, Kenwood or whomever else.

 

[W2GLD]

Too many bean counters, not enough engineers...

All the real engineers are at Icom home company in Japan. Icom America is basically just a distribution center. I'm not even sure who the P25 team consists of anymore if there even is such a thing.

We left about 2 1/2 years ago as the engineering manager has no idea about anything P25; so any and all development is now Japan only with little knowledgeable input.

 

[W2GLD]

Let's try to keep this about Icom and not Motorola, Harris/GE/MA-COM/Tyco/Commnet/L3, Kenwood or whomever else.

For the money, these radios, at best, are for small, single-site, non-advanced conventional/Phase 1 trunking systems only. It blows my mind how no other statewide systems have uncovered the issues with these radios and continue to blindly approve them for use! Ask the state of New Mexico, who has performed extensive Phase 2 testing or Connecticut and Pennsylvania, who turned them away completely! They also DO NOT SUPPORT P25 LLA, so Ohio and others are out as well…

 

[12dbsinad]

We left about 2 1/2 years ago as the engineering manager has no idea about anything P25; so any and all development is now Japan only with little knowledgeable input.

Back about 10-12 years ago or so when the F9000 series radios were Icom's trunking P25 line, they became much more aggressive after the F70/1700 P25 conventional series. I can remember attending many factory trainings with the "P25 team". Some of them brought over from Kenwood and Motorola. Those days seem to be long gone. It's too bad, because the F7000 series seem to fit the bill for many considering the compact size and the entry into 7/800 Mhz. They HAVE potential. They CAN and DO produce a good product.

 

[W2GLD]

Back about 10-12 years ago or so when the F9000 series radios were Icom's trunking P25 line, they became much more aggressive after the F70/1700 P25 conventional series. I can remember attending many factory trainings with the "P25 team". Some of them brought over from Kenwood and Motorola. Those days seem to be long gone. It's too bad, because the F7000 series seem to fit the bill for many considering the compact size and the entry into 7/800 Mhz. They HAVE potential. They CAN and DO produce a good product.

Icom does indeed make good amateur, marine, and aviation radios, but if you’re going to be in the public safety arena, they either need to be all in or just move out; they do not have the capacity to deliver what is expected with this product live, launched in 2015 and still isn’t ready for current TIA-102 standards should say allot about how far behind this product is. For the money, Viking, L3Harris, Tait, and even BK have far more value and meet current standard, that’s all I am saying.

 

[MTS2000des]

No competent system manager would allow any subscriber on his/her network without fully testing and vetting it. Doesn't matter who the vendor is. Especially if the product is intended to be used in IDLH or life safety settings.
We will continue to buy Icom aviation radios as they are sound. For P25, MSI, L3 Harris and JVC Kenwood all work closely with us to ensure their product will perform well on our system. Sad to say Icom chooses to not take P25 trunking seriously. Maybe this will change.

 

[OpSec]

Yep, here we are in November and crickets. The guy was very informative at APCO and took my card, said would be getting a follow up. Crickets. Guess the state's largest single county P25 system with over 7.000 subscribers and 15,000 active mutual aid IDs, 340+ talkgroups and ISSI to four other systems isn't big enough.

L3 Harris and JVC Kenwood have subs on our system. They are also easy to work with, provided us with master system keys, and software and trained us. As I explained to the Icom MR, until we can test, certify, program and authorize said subscribers in house, not a single one will be put on our network. Guess they just aren't interested. Would have loved to hear one on the system, they look like quality radios. I own several amateur Icoms, and we use the A25s at our airport.

Don't feel bad. A statewide system with 48,000 subscribers, 8 ISSI connections and two bands isn't good enough either.

 

[W2GLD]

For what it's worth, these radios were once provisionally approved for use on MPSCS, which is one of the oldest and largest statewide radio systems in the world with over 140,000+ subscribers; after waiting nearly 3-4 years for firmware enhancements to resolve outstanding issues, coupled with the complete lack of Failsoft operational support, numerous encryption and TDMA anomalies and the lack of import/export abilities in the CPS, they're provisional approval was rescinded and their radios were removed from operation on the system. I would suggest, if these radios were being properly vetted by system administrators and not vendors trying to sell a product to make a quick buck, they would be dropped from many other approved systems as well as they just do not meet current P25 specifications for most modern P25 Phase 2 trunking environments or updated TIA standards in 2024. For the money, EFJ, Tait, and even BK are listening to the industry, whereas Icom is not. At this point, Icom should focus on the business they do best, amateur, marine, aviation, and low-cost business and industry two-way radios and leave the public safety market to the professionals...

 

[MTS2000des]

Don't feel bad. A statewide system with 48,000 subscribers, 8 ISSI connections and two bands isn't good enough either.

There is a reason why MSI and L3H are dominant. They at least bring out demos, respond to customers, and actually follow through with contacts made at shows.

Icom makes superb amateur and aviation subscriber equipment, innovates and promotes their products. As mentioned, P25 doesn't seem to be on their road map.