That is true the default ones are used the most cause nobody ever takes the time or opportunity to change profile IDs ( really just TG IDs) and channel names. You can makeup any sequence of numbers to make your own talkgroup. Literly making it near impossible for anyone to eavesdrop let alone see if your using a DLR/DTR. Making a string of various numbers in various order ( almost like a small encryption key for yourself; really just a TG ID) makes the possibility even harder.
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Anything out there like the DTR?
- Thread starter Meestor_X
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That is true the default ones are used the most cause nobody ever takes the time or opportunity to change profile IDs ( really just TG IDs) and channel names. You can makeup any sequence of numbers to make your own talkgroup. Literly making it near impossible for anyone to eavesdrop let alone see if your using a DLR/DTR. Making a string of various numbers in various order ( almost like a small encryption key for yourself; really just a TG ID) makes the possibility even harder.
ProgressRidge
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Answering the initial question posed by this forum, the only alternative radios that I know about that are similar to the DTR/DLR radios are:
1. Engenius: They have a line of cordless phone/walkie talkie products. These radios work both as cordless phones and as two-way radios, and can work either with or independently from the base stations. The base stations operate as a repeater system with a telephone interface. Like the Motorola DTR units, they use 900 Mhz FHSS with 1-watt. Every component involved is very expensive. The digital quality is much better than the Motorola DTR units
2. Beartooth: This company has been advertising a radio system that would be compatible with Android and iOS phones for many years. Initially, it was going to be a case-like device that would add VHF and UHF ability to a specific phone model, and would use the phone for microphone/earpiece/short messages. That product never launched, but they're now advertising a 900 Mhz FHSS device that has a self-contained battery and will interface with any Android or iOS phone via a Bluetooth link. The device can also be used to charge another phone/device using USB. Supposedly, it will be released by December of this year. No word on sound quality, but the device will allegedly support some kind of text messaging and location sharing with other users.
3. TriSquare: This company offered a walkie talkie system that was like an inferior copy of Motorola's DTR/DLR series. It used 900 Mhz FHSS. Audio was analog FM, hopping was very slow, and the technology was so bad that some users would often miss entire messages (and sometimes entire conversations) if you had 3 or more radios on at the same time. These have been discontinued, and I wouldn't recommend that anyone use them unless you're only using two of them at a time.
1. Engenius: They have a line of cordless phone/walkie talkie products. These radios work both as cordless phones and as two-way radios, and can work either with or independently from the base stations. The base stations operate as a repeater system with a telephone interface. Like the Motorola DTR units, they use 900 Mhz FHSS with 1-watt. Every component involved is very expensive. The digital quality is much better than the Motorola DTR units
2. Beartooth: This company has been advertising a radio system that would be compatible with Android and iOS phones for many years. Initially, it was going to be a case-like device that would add VHF and UHF ability to a specific phone model, and would use the phone for microphone/earpiece/short messages. That product never launched, but they're now advertising a 900 Mhz FHSS device that has a self-contained battery and will interface with any Android or iOS phone via a Bluetooth link. The device can also be used to charge another phone/device using USB. Supposedly, it will be released by December of this year. No word on sound quality, but the device will allegedly support some kind of text messaging and location sharing with other users.
3. TriSquare: This company offered a walkie talkie system that was like an inferior copy of Motorola's DTR/DLR series. It used 900 Mhz FHSS. Audio was analog FM, hopping was very slow, and the technology was so bad that some users would often miss entire messages (and sometimes entire conversations) if you had 3 or more radios on at the same time. These have been discontinued, and I wouldn't recommend that anyone use them unless you're only using two of them at a time.
n1das
Member
I periodically check to see if Motorola has added any new DLR series models....
DLR Series Digital Portable Radios - Motorola Solutions
....no more new models yet...only the DLR1020 and DLR1060 models so far. It would be nice if Motorola added a few more DLR models having some more features to fully replace the aging DTR series.
My DLR1060 radios have been working out great. I use them with my wife for local simplex chit chat when we are out doing things where we would otherwise use GMRS/FRS bubble pack radios. As a GMRS licensee I don't want GMRS to become an unlicensed bubble pack only service as proposed by the
FCC back in 2010 but it may be headed that way anyway since it is still an open proceeding. If GMRS someday becomes an unlicensed bubble pack only service, I will simply be using the DLR radios a lot more.
DLR Series Digital Portable Radios - Motorola Solutions
....no more new models yet...only the DLR1020 and DLR1060 models so far. It would be nice if Motorola added a few more DLR models having some more features to fully replace the aging DTR series.
My DLR1060 radios have been working out great. I use them with my wife for local simplex chit chat when we are out doing things where we would otherwise use GMRS/FRS bubble pack radios. As a GMRS licensee I don't want GMRS to become an unlicensed bubble pack only service as proposed by the
FCC back in 2010 but it may be headed that way anyway since it is still an open proceeding. If GMRS someday becomes an unlicensed bubble pack only service, I will simply be using the DLR radios a lot more.
n1das
Member
BUMPing this thread back to the top again.
My DLRs have been working great and I recently picked up several DTR650s. My DLR1060 radios have worked great and I've outgrown them so I moved to the DTR650. They are working great. I sold my DLR1060 radios to a ham friend who also has been bit by the 900MHz DTR/DLR bug.
I learned of the DTR series radios back in 2006/2007 when they first came out. My wife and I were using NEXTEL i355 phones at the time and these had the off-network DirectTalk feature. The DT feature uses the same system as the DTRs but are coded differently so they are not compatible with the DTRs. It would have been wicked cool and wicked useful if they were compatible. Must have been a marketing thing so as to not compete with each other. I also noticed the i355 and the DTRs appear to share a common design and use the same commercial accessories for the most part. I studied the DTRs but never bothered to get any back then because they were pricey and I couldn't justify them at the time.
OK so fast forward 10 years to today.....I noticed the 900MHz commercial market had exploded on the scene years ago and then fizzled and this was about when the DTRs were hitting the market. I didn't give the DTRs another thought until recently because I (incorrectly) assumed they sort of faded away from the market. When the DLRs came out, that renewed my interest in the DTRs again. While researching the DLRs I found they are compatible with the DTRs so that sealed the deal to get some DLRs.
I had previously thought the DTRs had faded away but found to my surprise that they are still alive and well. Some accessories have gone EOL and are NLA but the DTRs still are current product from Motorola. They might have been a bit ahead of their time 10 years ago. They are currently on their 3rd generation and and Motorola appears to be committed to keeping them on the market.
The DLRs have worked great and so I stepped up to some brand new factory fresh DTRs and sold my pair of DLRs. I also got the 7" long 1/2 wave 900MHz antenna to replace the stock 3" 1/4 wave antenna that comes with each DTR650. I decided to go with brand new equipment because they are long term keepers and to have a full warranty on them. I wanted them to have all updates done to date and I didn't want to take any chances with used and beat up DTRs on eBay. The batteries in my DTR650s were manufactured only about 3 months ago.
The DTR650s are also part of my "exit strategy" from GMRS. I have been GMRS licensed since 1992 and have used good commercial gear on GMRS. I'm staying GMRS licensed and keeping my Part 90/95 gear. The equipment also gets used on the 440 ham band. With the NPRM from 2010 proposing to make GMRS license by rule and made into a bubble pack only service, that caused me to take a close look at how I actually use GMRS and consider alternatives and technologies that might work better. My use of GMRS over the years has typically been for local on-site simplex use. I've had 50W mobiles and repeaters on GMRS but the majority of my use of GMRS has been for local on-site type simplex use. The DTRs are completely replacing GMRS for my particular use case. The DTRs have been working EXCELLENT.
I did some DTR audio testing and posted a video up on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaNdMWPmVZI
I have become a big fan of the DTRs. IMHO the technology in the DTRs is under-utilized and very under-appreciated. Motorola, you have a kick-a$$ product for the particular niche that it serves. PLEASE update and expand and keep the DTR series product line going!!
My DLRs have been working great and I recently picked up several DTR650s. My DLR1060 radios have worked great and I've outgrown them so I moved to the DTR650. They are working great. I sold my DLR1060 radios to a ham friend who also has been bit by the 900MHz DTR/DLR bug.
I learned of the DTR series radios back in 2006/2007 when they first came out. My wife and I were using NEXTEL i355 phones at the time and these had the off-network DirectTalk feature. The DT feature uses the same system as the DTRs but are coded differently so they are not compatible with the DTRs. It would have been wicked cool and wicked useful if they were compatible. Must have been a marketing thing so as to not compete with each other. I also noticed the i355 and the DTRs appear to share a common design and use the same commercial accessories for the most part. I studied the DTRs but never bothered to get any back then because they were pricey and I couldn't justify them at the time.
OK so fast forward 10 years to today.....I noticed the 900MHz commercial market had exploded on the scene years ago and then fizzled and this was about when the DTRs were hitting the market. I didn't give the DTRs another thought until recently because I (incorrectly) assumed they sort of faded away from the market. When the DLRs came out, that renewed my interest in the DTRs again. While researching the DLRs I found they are compatible with the DTRs so that sealed the deal to get some DLRs.
I had previously thought the DTRs had faded away but found to my surprise that they are still alive and well. Some accessories have gone EOL and are NLA but the DTRs still are current product from Motorola. They might have been a bit ahead of their time 10 years ago. They are currently on their 3rd generation and and Motorola appears to be committed to keeping them on the market.
The DLRs have worked great and so I stepped up to some brand new factory fresh DTRs and sold my pair of DLRs. I also got the 7" long 1/2 wave 900MHz antenna to replace the stock 3" 1/4 wave antenna that comes with each DTR650. I decided to go with brand new equipment because they are long term keepers and to have a full warranty on them. I wanted them to have all updates done to date and I didn't want to take any chances with used and beat up DTRs on eBay. The batteries in my DTR650s were manufactured only about 3 months ago.
The DTR650s are also part of my "exit strategy" from GMRS. I have been GMRS licensed since 1992 and have used good commercial gear on GMRS. I'm staying GMRS licensed and keeping my Part 90/95 gear. The equipment also gets used on the 440 ham band. With the NPRM from 2010 proposing to make GMRS license by rule and made into a bubble pack only service, that caused me to take a close look at how I actually use GMRS and consider alternatives and technologies that might work better. My use of GMRS over the years has typically been for local on-site simplex use. I've had 50W mobiles and repeaters on GMRS but the majority of my use of GMRS has been for local on-site type simplex use. The DTRs are completely replacing GMRS for my particular use case. The DTRs have been working EXCELLENT.
I did some DTR audio testing and posted a video up on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaNdMWPmVZI
I have become a big fan of the DTRs. IMHO the technology in the DTRs is under-utilized and very under-appreciated. Motorola, you have a kick-a$$ product for the particular niche that it serves. PLEASE update and expand and keep the DTR series product line going!!
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n1das
Member
Short answer....NO.
I stepped up to the DTRs after a year of using DLRs which have worked excellent and work with the DTRs. The DTRs are working excellent too.
IMHO Motorola has kick-a$$ product here for the particular niche market it serves. The technology in the DTRs is largely under-appreciated and under-utilized. I'm probably going to get a few more DTRs to add to my collection and will need to get a Multi-Unit Charger (MUC) to go with them.
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
n1das
Member
I have used my DLR radios with my DTR radios before I sold the DLR radios after stepping up to the DTRs.
I have figured out how TGs in the DTRs map to channels in the DLRs. Assume for discussion purposes that a DTR and a DLR are both at their factory default programming. They will work with each other right out of the box using the Public groups in the DTRs. The DLRs basically can do everything the DTRs do for the most part, minus the display and few buttons.
The DTRs and DLRs are able to operate on 500 frequencies over the 902-928MHz band. These frequencies are grouped into 10 channels in the DTRs. Each DTR channel represents a unique hop set of 50 radio frequencies that the radio hops on. FCC 15.247 requires FHSS systems operating in the 902-928MHz band to use a minimum of 50 hopping frequencies. Output power (EIRP) is limited to +30 dBm (1W) by FCC 15.247. The DTRs and DLRs output 890mW (+29.5 dBm) according to their FCC type acceptance grants. We won't see any 2W or 3W DTRs in the future because of the +30 dBm (1W) legal limit.
A DTR channel can have public and private talkgroups (TGs). Private contacts are mapped to a particular DTR channel and private TGs are created from a list of private contacts. The individual Private Reply function in the DTRs works with the Private Reply function in the DLRs.
From this point on I will refer to hop sets instead of channels because channels in the DLR series refers to the 2 or 6 channels depending on model (DLR1020 or DLR1060) as seen by the end user. For the average radio user, the concept of channels like in a plain old analog radio may make more sense than talkgroups (i.e, WTH is a talkgroup?). The DLRs use the same frequency hop sets the DTRs use (aka channels in the DTRs). The factory default is hop set #1 in the DTRs and DLRs. Private contacts and private groups can also be set up in the DLRs using the CPS.
With both radios at their factory default programming, DLR channels 1-6 as seen by the end user map to Public TGs 1 thru 6 in the DTRs and using frequency hop set #1. The DTR's factory default programming includes Public groups 1 thru 5 so you'll need to add a Public group with an ID of 6 to your DTR programming to have access to all 6 channels in the DLR1060.
The DLRs have a 4 digit "profile" to add another dimension to programming possibilities and is something the DTRs don't have. It is the DLR equivalent of CTSSS/PL and DCS/DPL in plain old analog radios. The profile needs to be left at the factory default of 0000 to work with the DTRs. I haven't figured out how this maps to anything in the DTRs other than it has to be at 0000 to work.
I set up a private TG for my DTR650 radios and also set up Public groups 1-6 so they work the DLRs at their factory default programming. I am purposely keeping my DTR650s as close as possible to the factory default programming so I can listen for other traffic.
Lots of cool stuff here.
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Good info! Thank you for sharing your findings.
However, one item does not jive with my tests.
Private Groups do not need a "list of private contacts". A description of how I think they work can be found here.
If you feel I am in error, I would welcome further discussion of it, but it's probably not a subject for this forum.
However, one item does not jive with my tests.
I can't say for sure whether an actual "channel" (which I would take as meaning frequency) is used, or simply a hop formula. IDs are used for contacts and groups, and the ID I figure is merely a way to identify the particular hop sequence that will be used.
Private Groups do not need a "list of private contacts". A description of how I think they work can be found here.
If you feel I am in error, I would welcome further discussion of it, but it's probably not a subject for this forum.
There are 3 main issues with these radios in the application I'm using them in:
1. The delay. I need analog-like instantaneous or near-instantaneous communication. The latency is way too high with these radios.
2. The fact that you have to look at the devices to change groups. Analog radios with rotary channel selectors allow you to "count" to what channel you are selecting without looking at the radio, and some radios even speak the channel number to you (I tried a Kenwood that did that).
3. The speaker/mic volume does not go loud enough. The radio itself has a very loud speaker, but for some reason does not drive the speaker/mic to that same volume level.
I don't believe that the perfect radio exists - one that has minimal latency, eyes-free operation, private groups and private calling, long range, license-free, compact, free programming software, etc...
However, I keep hoping!
1. The delay. I need analog-like instantaneous or near-instantaneous communication. The latency is way too high with these radios.
2. The fact that you have to look at the devices to change groups. Analog radios with rotary channel selectors allow you to "count" to what channel you are selecting without looking at the radio, and some radios even speak the channel number to you (I tried a Kenwood that did that).
3. The speaker/mic volume does not go loud enough. The radio itself has a very loud speaker, but for some reason does not drive the speaker/mic to that same volume level.
I don't believe that the perfect radio exists - one that has minimal latency, eyes-free operation, private groups and private calling, long range, license-free, compact, free programming software, etc...
However, I keep hoping!
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I may look again at the Tytera MD-380. I'd like to see what features still work in analog mode, whether private/group calling features work in that mode. I really need something that has little or no delay between pressing the talk button and speaking as well as speaking and the other person receiving.
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