Bad weather and crazy hikers

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CharlesDom

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Sure were a lot of incidents today in SoCal from rock/mudslides to stupid hikers out hiking in bad weather when they shouldn't have been. Unfortunately there some injuries and a death. Rescue personnel were also trapped near Mt. Wilson.

Those people who had to be rescued for being stupid should be charged monetarily, make them pay for their own rescue.
 

Station51

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Yep!

There were 2 at the top of the Palm Springs tram Saturday night also which involved a rescue team, RSO and a Sheriff's helicopter.
I was listening to it thinking the same thing, that they idiots should get a bill for the service.
When they called for help it was after dark!
 

SCPD

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Hiking or cross country skiing in "bad" weather can be a very good experience. You have to be prepared for it and that includes carrying enough equipment to be able to have shelter, warmth, and food to be able to sit out whatever weather event you have ventured into. Along with this equipment, you must have the knowledge and experience to handle the weather and to be able to know exactly where you are at all times. You should also be very aware of the weather forecast and smart enough to bow out of a trip if extreme conditions are possible.

I've purposely taken winter cross county skiing overnight ski trips when heavy and windy snowstorms are predicted. I have chosen to camp somewhere fairly close to an all weather road so if something goes wrong, I have the ability to bail out and return to my vehicle. My first couple of nights camping in extreme winter weather were in a tent in my back yard. As my experience grew I began to venture further. By doing this I've been able to increase my winter experience and knowledge enough to better handle unpredicted weather when on a more extensive trip where bailing out is not an option. I've done this after taking many trips of increasing difficulty combined with enough training where I could handle what I was going to face. The trick is to push the experience envelope just enough to gain some field smarts, but not enough to get into trouble. Another trick is to be able to change plans to adapt to the weather, which often requires backing out of a trip or stopping and making camp even when on a trip where an overnight was not planned.

Being out in "bad" weather can be a very good experience. Laying in your sleeping bag, inside a four season tent, drinking hot chocolate made over a stove nicely placed in the roomy vestibule found on many four seasons tents, talking with a good friend, and having the wind howl and the snow falling heavily is very rewarding. Waking up the next morning to a few feet of fresh snow is a unique and special experience. In many places winter offers more chance for solitude than summer does.

Winter travel in the mountains requires some knowledge of avalanche dynamics and avoidance. Knowledge of how to use equipment to avoid hypothermia is essential. Small mistakes made during the summer in good weather may cause a minor amount of discomfort. These same "small" mistakes in winter can lead to fatalities.

So hikers and cross country skiers are not stupid just because they chose to take a trip in such weather. Every time you hear of a rescue during these conditions, there are probably many more people who did not have to be rescued. You don't hear about these folks. The "stupid" hikers are those who find themselves in conditions they are not experienced or equipped to get through. Sometimes this is due to improperly evaluating the expected conditions. Another mistake made in southern California is not understanding how rugged and wild the San Gabriel, San Bernardino, and San Jacinto mountains can be. I've been on a few fires in them and understand this very well. The proximity of a very large urban area is of little consequence when the right conditions are experienced.

Those who haven't taken the terrain and weather into account when planning their trips often cause the need for a search and rescue. This can often result in the rescuers being exposed to all sorts of hazards. So the poor decision making of some inexperienced people can affect many other people, most of whom have better sense than to travel beyond their own experience.

Many of the people who have had to be rescued go on and gain a great deal of experience and never have a problem again. Often "stupid" people become very smart. We all are at some point on the learning curve and are not exempt from making mistakes. For some of us those mistakes don't result in the need to be rescued and for others they do. Often the difference is a matter of luck. I try to keep this in mind when observing or being involved in rescues so that I don't become cynical and judgemental.
 

RobertW1

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During a "debriefing" at the Big Pines VIS center regarding the three fatalities involved in the avalanches near Mountain High in the Angeles National Forest, the thought of charging the victims/families for the rescue operation was discussed between the LEOs in charge of the investigation and the Ranger responsible for Avalanche detection and operations in the SCMR District of the Angeles National Forest. Seeking compensation just doesn't happen in the ANF.

Apparently, though this has been suggested or tried to be implemented in the past, it goes nowhere. My understanding is that there are procedures and protocol to get such a thing implemented in a National Forest and it is on a Forest by Forest basis. If I heard correctly, while the Angeles National Forest will not seek compensation for Search and Rescue operations, other National Forests do, including the San Bernardino National Forest. Perhaps you can shed some light on this ExSmokey.

At one point during the S&R operation on the first day just before nightfall about 5 rescuers felt a "shelf", that they were on, slip a few feet. Because of the danger to the rescuers and the poor visibility, the search was called off until daylight the next morning. It was then that Darren Coffey with the USFS, the third victim, was found. I had met Darren in the past, as we had worked together on the San Gabriel Mountains Bighorn Sheep Restoration Project with the California Department of Fish and Game. All three victims were excellent skiers and knew the risks they were taking. Thankfully no S&R personnel was injured in the search/recovery.

USFS Volunteer 334 (ANF High Country, Area 12)
 
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scannerboy02

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Missing Snowboarders Near Yosemite

From Yosemite public affairs office:

Search is taking place north of the community of Yosemite West, near the western border

Yosemite West is outside the park

The boys could be inside or outside the park but Yosemite is conducting the search anyway

It is a jointly managed search with Mariposa County

Search started late yesterday afternoon, continued until midnight and started again about 8am today

Yosemite is heading up the search

2 ground crews and they are bringing in another crew from Mariposa County SAR

2 choppers searching now

Heavy snowfall is a positive for the search as tracks are easily made and seen

They have seen tracks since last night and are still following them
they have to be very careful to preserve the tracks so the search is going on in a very methodical fashion

Very rough terrain, very steep

The boys were going to snowboard the area of Henness Ridge (rugged area, series of peaks and ridges) and they did not show up at the pick up point

Missing:
Ryan Westbrook, 26 yrs
Cody and Dylan Westbrook, twins, 16 yrs
 
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scannerboy02

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Yosemite News Release
February 5, 2007
For Immediate Release
Snowboarders Found in Yosemite National Park
Three snowboarders, missing since Monday afternoon, were located by
helicopter spotters at around 2:00pm near the South Fork of the Merced
River. All three were responsive and walked to the helicopter on their
own. Their condition will be further assessed as they come out.
A total of over 65 Search and Rescue personnel from Yosemite National Park
and Mariposa County have been searching the area since yesterday.
 

mkewman

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scannerboy02 said:
Yosemite News Release
February 5, 2007
For Immediate Release
Snowboarders Found in Yosemite National Park
Three snowboarders, missing since Monday afternoon, were located by
helicopter spotters at around 2:00pm near the South Fork of the Merced
River. All three were responsive and walked to the helicopter on their
own. Their condition will be further assessed as they come out.
A total of over 65 Search and Rescue personnel from Yosemite National Park
and Mariposa County have been searching the area since yesterday.

glad to hear that it ended well.
 

gmclam

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That's 2 incidents in northern California this week with positive outcomes - even though we've had some very harsh weather. Thanks to all who were out there searching.
 
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