Baofeng Baofeng Not Resting On Its Laurels!

[Stargater53]

While people keep talking about the Baofeng UV-5R’s effect on amateur radio, they're being sidelined by some of the company’s more recent offerings.

One of Baofeng’s biggest mistakes is allowing retailers to prostitute its name, making obvious and ridiculous claims regarding power...unlimited power! [Insert evil laugh] Not only in transmitted power, but in battery power. If it continues, we’ll hear about tiny waterproof nuclear reactors powering 2000W radios.

But ridiculous power claims of the present 20W radios are mere distractions. Anyone smart enough to use a Surecom SWR power meter is smart enough not to believe those claims. But while all of this is happening, people are missing the real gems the company is producing, and I'm talking about the 10W H6 and H7 radios. I've purchased both, and I'm convinced that many people are ignoring the 10W claims because of the monumentally stupid 18W and 20W claims being made by the company for some of its other radios!

That said, the H6 is clearly the most powerful radio Baofeng offers. Really. Using my Surecom, these are the readings I got. The H6/H7 figures (for comparison purposes only) are:

Baofeng H6/H7

140.000 8.76W/7.63W
142.725 8.74W/7.8W
143.500 8.71W/7.83W
146.355 8.74W/7.85W
440.525 8.53W/8.83W
442.000 8.55W/8.78W
446.252 8.52W/7.93W

Okay, so it's not a full 10 watts, but it’s close enough, and the medium power numbers are powerful enough to be used the vast majority of time, especially with the H7.

The only true 10W HT that I know of is the TYT TD-UV8000D/E, which is a bargain, but the H6 is sleek enough for easy pocket carry while the TYT and H7 are a bit big and heavy. My point is that Baofeng, from a power standpoint, is leaving most other HT manufacturers in the dust while reviewers keep talking about the UV-5R, which is ancient history.

What of the H6 and H7s? Do you have one? If so, what do you think?

Me, I love the H6. It’s my favorite Baofeng. My next favorite is the H7, followed by the Tidradio TD-F6, a really well designed and attractive little radio.

 

[AK9R]

Okay, so it's not a full 10 watts, but it’s close enough...

Many years ago, the Federal Trade Commission clamped down on manufacturers of audio power amplifiers for making incorrect claims of output power. The result was that the FTC established a set of standards for measuring output power (Federal Register :: Request Access). This caused a huge uproar in the home stereo industry. Independent test labs knew for some time that the manufacturers were stretching the truth or outright lying. Finally, these labs had the weight of government regulation bearing down on manufacturers to tell the truth.

If a manufacturer or importer of a radio transmitter claims 10 watts output, then they should be able to show test results backing up their claim and those test results should be reproduceable by independent testing labs with calibrated equipment. If only the Federal Communications Commission had similar standards to what the FTC established almost 50 years ago AND had the will to enforce them. Or, it's a matter of the consumers don't care and are willing to accept the lies being uttered by manufacturers, importers, and retailers.

Your test results tell me you have, at best, an 8 or 8.5 watt radio. I'm sure someone will come along and remind us that the difference between 8 watts and 10 watts is only about 1 dB and, therefore, the difference is almost meaningless. Such is the way in which we allow manufacturers, importers, and retailers to weasel their way out of advertising integrity.

 

[Stargater53]

If a manufacturer or importer of a radio transmitter claims 10 watts output, then they should be able to show test results backing up their claim and those test results should be reproduceable by independent testing labs with calibrated equipment. ... Or, it's a matter of the consumers don't care and are willing to accept the lies being uttered by manufacturers, importers, and retailers.

Yes, if only.... There are many people using ham and GMRS frequencies today that don't have a license. The FCC seems to have bigger fish to fry, it seems.

Baofeng knows the FTC or FCC won't do anything, so it operates in the open, content to sell its wares at whatever ridiculous claims ther retailers want.

Is anyone actually deceived by these ridiculous claims if 18W - 20W and 8800mAh batteries? Who knows? Probably very few. The real damage is in not knowing the real numbers.

Your test results tell me you have, at best, an 8 or 8.5 watt radio. I'm sure someone will come along and remind us that the difference between 8 watts and 10 watts is only about 1 dB and, therefore, the difference is almost meaningless. Such is the way in which we allow manufacturers, importers, and retailers to weasel their way out of advertising integrity.

Yes, and the ff FCC is completely unwilling to change its regulatory tune. For years I've been trying to get the FCC to designate one frequency in UHF and one in VHF for those experiencing emergencies.

In 2007, for example, James Kim was traveling through the snowy mountains of the Siskiyou National Forest in Oregon with his his wife, Kati, and two small children, when he inadvertently took an unused logging road. He soon found himself trapped in a snow bank, unable to move forward or backwards. Their cell phone was useless; however, they were confident they would be found, so they hunkered down and waited.

But no help came.

After several days had passed, and no help was forthcoming, James bid farewell to his family and set out on foot to find a small town he thought he could reach. Sadly, he wasn't where he thought he was, and after traveling for miles, he collapsed and died.

At one point Kati heard a helicopter but could not get their signal fire going.

“It was the darkest, most depressing moment” of their lives, she said. Fortunately for them, a helicopter pilot, dispatched when the Kims were reported missing, happened to spot the Jame’s tracks in the snow. The pilot followed them back to the car, where the rest of the Kims were weak and barely holding on to life.

If the Kims had had even a UV-5R, the entire family could have been saved. They wouldn't have even needed an 8W version, though I wouldn't have turned one down. But even if they'd had that cheap Baofeng, what frequency would they have dialled in?

If the FCC had designated UHF and VHF frequencies, it would also need to require radio sellers to designate those channels into those radios. We can't ask cell phone companies to erect towers in remote areas, but we can police CB emergency bands and emergency ham frequencies, if we can only designate them.

 

[mmckenna]

Yes, and the ff FCC is completely unwilling to change its regulatory tune. For years I've been trying to get the FCC to designate one frequency in UHF and one in VHF for those experiencing emergencies.


If the Kims had had even a UV-5R, the entire family could have been saved. They wouldn't have even needed an 8W version, though I wouldn't have turned one down. But even if they'd had that cheap Baofeng, what frequency would they have dialled in?

If the FCC had designated UHF and VHF frequencies, it would also need to require radio sellers to designate those channels into those radios. We can't ask cell phone companies to erect towers in remote areas, but we can police CB emergency bands and emergency ham frequencies, if we can only designate them.

The FCC has already designated a UHF frequency for this, they did a long time ago.
406.1MHz. It's called PLB. You can also get devices that use Iridium, such as the Garmin InReach.

Those are the devices that were specifically designed and permitted by the FCC to solve these exact situations. They are inexpensive, compared to the cost of a human life, a vehicle, or a backpacking trip. Unfortunately, we there are those that think that relying on a $25 Chinese radio is the correct solution. If safety of human life is the concern, then it's going to cost money to do it right. And comparing costs, a $250 PLB is a great bargain when compared to the cost of a human life.

Add in that cell carriers/cell phone manufacturers are integrating satellite capability into new cell phones. That will allow text messages from anywhere with a view of the sky. No need to set up a special radio service for CCR users.

The FCC catering to cheap Chinese radio users is never going to happen. The average consumer can't tell you the difference between VHF, UHF or VHS. Building out a network to support this is financially impossible.
As for hams, they already have the ability to do this, but due to constant infighting, it won't happen. Look up "LITZ" and "Wilderness Protocol". All ideas that actually make sense, but never took off, even with 'dedicated' frequencies.

 

[GlobalNorth]

The last thing the USA needs is a 9-1-1 equivalent for a VHF and or UHF frequency. People have repeatedly been instructed to call 9-1-1 for legitimate life threatening emergencies. The number of banal and stupid calls is amazing: I didn't my correct food order at McDs, my children won't clean their rooms, my neighbor's BBQ odor is coming into my home and I'm a vegetarian, etc. and all on traced lines to their residence/phone number.

Implement a VHF/UHF channel on an anonymous radio and the police/sheriff/highway patrol will be overwhelmed with fake reports, stupidity, and an idiocracy to oversee it.

 

[radionx]

If the Kims had had even a UV-5R, the entire family could have been saved.

I read this sad story...and I think a Baofeng would have been of absolutely no use.

Device of choice today: Garmin inreach Mini 2.

 

[WRQS621]

The FCC has already designated a UHF frequency for this, they did a long time ago.
406.1MHz. It's called PLB. You can also get devices that use Iridium, such as the Garmin InReach.

Those are the devices that were specifically designed and permitted by the FCC to solve these exact situations. They are inexpensive, compared to the cost of a human life, a vehicle, or a backpacking trip. Unfortunately, we there are those that think that relying on a $25 Chinese radio is the correct solution. If safety of human life is the concern, then it's going to cost money to do it right. And comparing costs, a $250 PLB is a great bargain when compared to the cost of a human life.

Add in that cell carriers/cell phone manufacturers are integrating satellite capability into new cell phones. That will allow text messages from anywhere with a view of the sky. No need to set up a special radio service for CCR users.

The FCC catering to cheap Chinese radio users is never going to happen. The average consumer can't tell you the difference between VHF, UHF or VHS. Building out a network to support this is financially impossible.
As for hams, they already have the ability to do this, but due to constant infighting, it won't happen. Look up "LITZ" and "Wilderness Protocol". All ideas that actually make sense, but never took off, even with 'dedicated' frequencies.

The Garmin isn’t $250, more like $400. It requires a subscription and is satellite based. Anyone that still uses XM can tell you how reliable satellite is. Most folks use FRS radios for outdoors, yes, very bad choice. Baofeng is a better choice than Garmin and FRS due to their ability to transmit on many frequency allocation bands (GMRS, Amateur, etc). My best advice, if you actually need a Garmin, do a better job communicating your trip plan before heading out. That will save your life.

 

[radionx]

One of Baofeng’s biggest mistakes is allowing retailers to prostitute its name,

Biggest issue here is that they label their "EMI generators" acually as "radios".

I apply the Baofeng thing now for this specific case: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Kim

Baofeng is a better choice than Garmin and FRS due to their ability to transmit on many frequency allocation bands (GMRS, Amateur, etc).

I took a look at the population density in this specific case. GeoHack - Location of Kim's family
Thats where they broke down, in December(!). Image this with your wife and two children. If I imagine this I get the goosebumps. I say: Ordinary people are not able to operate a Baofeng under stress, let alone set up a connection over a repeater with CTCSS.

There is another interesting thing in this case:

After 23 miles of slow travel along Road BLM 34-8-36, the family stopped at about 1.00 a.m. on November 26 because of fatigue and bad weather (42°41′19″N 123°46′38″W).

Two Edge Wireless engineers, Eric Fuqua and Noah Pugsley, contacted search and rescue authorities offering their help in the search. On Saturday, December 2, they began searching through the data logs of cell sites, trying to find records of repeaters to which the Kims' cellphone may have connected. They discovered that on November 26, 2006, at around 1:30 a.m., the Kims' cellphone made a brief automatic connection to a cell site near Glendale, Oregon, and retrieved two text messages.

I think they could have sent a short message with a mayday and an approximate location without realizing it. If in danger, IMMEDIATELY use all recources still left and assess them. Even if there was a Baofeng around...I suppose it would have been of no use, sadly.

Game Changer in 2022: An iPhone 14 might have helped Use Emergency SOS via satellite on your iPhone 14 - Apple Support but time will tell.

 

[ten13]

Why is anyone even talking about a radio made in Communist China, much less even own one?

 

[mmckenna]

The Garmin isn’t $250, more like $400. It requires a subscription and is satellite based.

Never said the Garmin is $250. I said:

And comparing costs, a $250 PLB is a great bargain when compared to the cost of a human life.

A basic PLB is ~$250, less if you watch for sales:

Amazon.com

A basic PLB (A -true- PLB, not a Garmin/Spot device) does not use a subscription based service, and there are no ongoing costs for ownership other than 5 year battery replacements.

If you want a Garmin/Spot type device, they can be had at a slightly lower price if you shop around and wait for a sale:

Amazon.com

Yes, subscriptions are required for Spot/Garmin type devices, but they provide more features than a standard PLB. I pay $11.95/month for my Garmin service, but unlike a standard PLB, I have two way message capability and use it to check in with others when I'm working remotely. The $11.95/month is well worth it to my wife.

Anyone that still uses XM can tell you how reliable satellite is. Most folks use FRS radios for outdoors, yes, very bad choice. Baofeng is a better choice than Garmin and FRS due to their ability to transmit on many frequency allocation bands (GMRS, Amateur, etc). My best advice, if you actually need a Garmin, do a better job communicating your trip plan before heading out. That will save your life.

SiriusXM doesn't really compare to the COSPAS-SARSAT system used by PLB's. Different satellites, different technology. COSPAS-SARSAT uses many satellites in low earth, medium earth and geostationary orbits, and coverage is pretty dang good. Trying to draw a parallel between the SiriusXM coverage and the COSPAS-SARSAT 406.1MHz system isn't going to work.

Cospas-Sarsat System Overview | SARSAT

www.sarsat.noaa.gov

Iridium, used by the Garmin InReach devices, has something like 66 satellites in orbit and provides 100% coverage.
I've used my InReach Mini in some very deep canyons. Usually the delay in sending a location is due to the amount of time it takes to get a GPS lock. Once the GPS is locked, the message sends right away. I used it three or four times this week to check in from some remote sites I was working at. One of those locations is in a deep coastal canyon that is an RF dead zone to anything other than satellite based communications or the UHF repeater I was there to work on.

As for using a $25 Chinese radio for life safety, some people value life pretty low.
Absolutely, communicate your plans ahead of time, that's a no brainer for anyone who does this stuff for a living.
GMRS is useless in most of the areas I go to. There are zero repeaters and no one listening. Those that are using GMRS, usually are running PL/DPL tones and trying to catch them on the right frequency and the right squelch code would be an exercise in futility. The chance of them being able to contact anyone else would be slim to none. It's also exceptionally poor planning to rely on a radio service like that for life safety.

Same with Amateur radio. I've tried Amateur radio 3 times in my life to get emergency help. 1st time there was no answer on the repeater after many calls. 2nd time was someone "didn't want to get involved" and stopped answering. 3rd time was a ham that wanted to play cop, asked a ton of questions, then decided he didn't want to get involved either. Finally hiked to a place that my cell phone worked and called 911.

Relying on hobbyists for life safety is another exceptionally bad idea. Zero requirement that anyone listen and zero requirement that they'll actually help.

"etc."? Hopefully you don't mean using a CCR to come up on random public safety frequencies? That's not going to work as well as hams like to think it will. And I've yet to see a $25 CCR that will do P25.


Hobbyists trying to justify their CCR's as some form of emergency preparedness is foolish to say the least. The average person who buys one of these polished turds isn't going to have the knowledge to properly program it to work effectively. Using it under duress is going to make it even harder. Providing an accurate location to first responders is going to further complicate their response.

Thankfully, new cell phones are coming with satellite capability that will allow some level of SMS based communications out of areas with zero cell phone coverage. Maybe this will compete against Darwin and the mass stupidity that people seem to enjoy so much.

 

[Skooter92]

I remember working dispatch in a small sleepy Midwestern town in the 80's. Right at the console was a CB, don't remember the brand, set to channel 9. This was pre cellphone. We were at the junction of I-80 and a well traveled rural highway. Despite the general lack of communications, no one ever used it. However, so many people had mobile and base units, and they relayed info far more info by telephoning in than we ever got. I think every cruiser had one, and they got more use out of those than our base. I wonder if that lonely old base is still mounted, perpetually on, perpetually silent.

 

[mmckenna]

One of our local PSAP's had a CB in their radio console up until about 15 years ago. All the times I saw it, it was always turned off. At one time it was useful, but that time is long past.

Having worked in PSAPs and with public safety radio systems for the last 25 years, I know how much it costs to build out radio systems and PSAP's. Any dream that people have about setting up dedicated emergency channels for hobbyists isn't rooted in any level of common sense.

The idea that hams, GMRS users, MURS users, CB users or any other hobby group needs some special access into the PSAP reeks of whackerism. PSAP's have well established protocols and methods for handling incoming calls, and hobbyists having a secret bypass of that isn't going to happen.

 

[BMDaug]

I take a Beofeng to sites to test repeaters I’m working on… I don’t really like the idea of taking a nice ham radio let alone a public safety radio that close to a 100W transmitter unless absolutely necessary. A more disposable solution is preferable for a quick up close test. Once I get back to the truck, I test with a proper radio…

@radionx “EMI Generators” LOL come on, according to ARRL testing, one in five meets FCC specifications for spurious emissions… If Beofeng doesn’t want to rest in it’s laurels, they would work on quality control before anything else…

@mmckenna is right. A PLB is definitely the way to go when lives are on the line. Using a CCR when lives depend on it IS whackerism, but it’s part of the prepper ego complex. It’s something they can put on the shelf in the ‘bunker’ or in the truck and tell others how prepared they are when they don’t even know how to use it properly. Using a radio without a comms plan is just a shot in the dark and if anyone thinks they’re gonna scan to find a usable channel with a CCR, they’re kidding themselves…

-B

 

[Skooter92]

Very interesting in light of the comments about the WTSHTF community and Baofengs, are the pictures of combatants in the war in the Ukraine with UV-5R's in hand; spotted some Moto FRS handhelds too.

 

[BMDaug]

Very interesting in light of the comments about the WTSHTF community and Baofengs, are the pictures of combatants in the war in the Ukraine with UV-5R's in hand; spotted some Moto FRS handhelds too.

When you have solid training and a solid comms plan, you can use whatever you can get with acceptable results.

I guess I’m saying it’s a one way street. A well trained individual who is part of a well trained team with a well thought out plan, can do a lot with very little, but someone who is ill prepared and ignorant will do very little, even with the best tools.

This is part of the same flawed ideology as buying a gun and being confident you are ready to defend yourself simply because you own a gun. Defending yourself and your family takes a lot, and I mean A LOT of time at the range to be prepared.

The preppers I’ve met focus on having a lot more than knowing a lot. This is a generalization, and before you get offended, I’m really not making fun of anyone. I constantly try to push the preppers I know to KNOW more and not HAVE more. It’s easy and comforting to buy things and feel prepared, but it’s a false sense of security.

-B

 

[mmckenna]

I guess I’m saying it’s a one way street. A well trained individual who is part of a well trained team with a well thought out plan, can do a lot with very little, but someone who is ill prepared and ignorant will do very little, even with the best tools.

That's the "I spent $25 on Amazon and watched a few YouTube videos. I'm now a comms ekspurt!" attitude.

 

[MTS2000des]

The last thing I would ever consider implementing at my call taking/dispatching positions is some CB/GMRS/HAM static filled, jib-jabbing sounding hash and trash garbage. My PSAP processes over 900,000 calls for service a year- 82 percent of which are actual emergencies. Our staff are overworked, fatigued and doing their best to keep up with ever increasing call volumes.

We process text to 911, use Rapid SOS, and are gearing up for emerging modern technology the general public expects like Apple's new SOS service. We already get calls from OnStar, SXM, you name it alarm companies with vague data. Our school board is now implementing FLOCK with ALPR.

All of this ends up dumped on us. The last thing we need is to muddy the waters with CB radios, Baoturd noise makers, or GMRS blaring from our consoles.

Come do a sit in and see what the REAL WORLD is like. It isn't the stupid beeping computer all glass cockpit of the FAF Fox TV show. Sidenote, wake me up when the ARRL gets off this ham radio/EMCOMM whackerism crap. Ham radio is a HOBBY not a public safety service. Just stop.

 

[KK4JUG]

Why is anyone even talking about a radio made in Communist China, much less even own one?

I understand what you're saying but that ship has sailed. It's too late. Ever since VCR days, China has been a major manufacturer of, not only electronics but almost everything else: my toe nail clippers, my Yaesu radio, the fuses in my Sorento (which was made just up the road), my computer, my TV, my butane lighter, the butane for my lighter, my laser etchers, my GPS, ad infinitum, ad nauseum. I have clothes made in Viet Nam, Bangladesh, Mongolia, Egypt, Jordan, San Salvador and more. My scanners were made in Viet Nam.

About the only thing we make in this country is vehicles and trouble.

"American Made" sounds good but it's pretty much a lost cause at this point in time and I don't worry about it anymore.

 

[BMDaug]

I understand what you're saying but that ship has sailed. It's too late. Ever since VCR days, China has been a major manufacturer of, not only electronics but almost everything else: my toe nail clippers, my Yaesu radio, the fuses in my Sorento (which was made just up the road), my computer, my TV, my butane lighter, the butane for my lighter, my laser etchers, my GPS, ad infinitum, ad nauseum. I have clothes made in Viet Nam, Bangladesh, Mongolia, Egypt, Jordan, San Salvador and more. My scanners were made in Viet Nam.

About the only thing we make in this country is vehicles and trouble.

"American Made" sounds good but it's pretty much a lost cause at this point in time and I don't worry about it anymore.

Ya, if you want American made, you’re gonna have to shop the public safety market. Something like a Harris or BK. Also, the USA has recently restricted the sale of “sophisticated computer chips” to China and Russia so depending on the parts used in your radio, it may not be made in China for much longer. There’s no way this applies to a single part of a Beofeng, but it’s a start!!!

-B

 

[KK4JUG]

Ya, if you want American made, you’re gonna have to shop the public safety market. Something like a Harris or BK. Also, the USA has recently restricted the sale of “sophisticated computer chips” to China and Russia so depending on the parts used in your radio, it may not be made in China for much longer. There’s no way this applies to a single part of a Beofeng, but it’s a start!!!

-B

Yeah, but that just covers the radios.

I'm gettin' out of this. We sort of hijacked the thread.