Baofeng UV-5X is apparently FCC Certified for GMRS

[prcguy]

I'm looking at the Popular Communication article right now that mentions my friend using the frequencies between GMRS channels and getting fined. I had many GMRS repeaters back then and your saying it was not doled out for consumer use? Hmm, why do I remember spending months getting a few business off our repeater frequencies because they were no longer allowed to operate there?

The 1980s was LONG before the GMRS and FRS bands being doled out for consumer use. Sounds like general freebanding that was coincidentally using the UHF airwaves. That's a stretch to construe it as GMRS/FRS misuse when I don't even remember seeing FRS walkie talkies appearing until 1998 or later.

There is no modern-era enforcement that can be found on record by searching the FCC's public records. I used to be a news reporter and I may actually take this one up as a freelance reporter and call the FCC to make a formal public records request.

 

[FPR1981]

Your friend was trying to set up a CB repeater on unapproved frequencies. that's as big a no no as causing harmful interference.

That's not a case of some guy using a GMRS walkie talkie without a license, or with the wrong antenna, or an unapproved radio.

You can browse the Enforcement Bureau's Field Notices at http://transition.fcc.gov/eb/FieldNotices/. I did find a few related to FRS violations, e.g. several cases where a company was using FRS/GMRS for business purposes — even going so far as to set up repeaters, like you said.

But there isn't a single case of enforcement against simply an individual casually using an unlicensed walkie-talkie in an otherwise non-interfering manner.

 

[prcguy]

I'm looking at the Popular Communication article right now that mentions my friend using the frequencies between GMRS channels and getting fined. I had many GMRS repeaters back then and your saying it was not doled out for consumer use? Hmm, why do I remember spending months getting a few business off our repeater frequencies because they were no longer allowed to operate there?

I've used the FCC record searches in the past and failed to find things that I know exist and that showed up in previous FCC searches. I don't think their system is very reliable or repeatable.

 

[mmckenna]

The 1980s was LONG before the GMRS and FRS bands being doled out for consumer use.

No.

GMRS has been around for a very long time. Well before the 1980's.

There is no modern-era enforcement that can be found on record by searching the FCC's public records. I used to be a news reporter and I may actually take this one up as a freelance reporter and call the FCC to make a formal public records request.

Enforcement action against Rugged Radios for selling non-type accepted radios for use on multiple radio services, including GMRS:

https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DA-20-1395A1.pdf

Unlicensed use of GMRS, type certification violation for FRS, etc….

https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DOC-357545A1.pdf

I could keep digging, but since you are an ex-reporter, I'll leave that up to you.

The FCC doesn't spend it's time chasing down people. Some like you to think that is what happens, but the FCC is understaffed and doesn't work that way. They are not out roaming neighborhoods looking for a kid with an FRS radio with a non-compliant antenna.

What they do respond to is well presented complaints. The FCC will respond if someone does most of the leg work for them. Simply calling up and complaining about something usually results in nothing happening. But if you supply recordings, evidence, something they can use, they do respond.

The truth is, most GMRS, FRS, MURS users don't care and won't put the effort into doing the work needed to get the FCC to respond. It does happen, however. Like most things, it's not the small violations. Where people usually get in trouble is when they start getting stupid and pushing the envelope a bit too much.
Where you'll see enforcement is where people care, like amateur radio, broadcast radio, etc.

I'm not going to go digging for them, I'll leave this up the reporter in you to find, but in years past there has been enforcement actions against unlicensed GMRS users. One in particular was when someone set up a bunch of business radios on someone's GMRS repeater output. Others have been large radio shops that used GMRS as a dumping ground for customers.

It does happen, but it's rare. Not finding them doesn't mean it never happens, it just means that you haven't searched hard enough.

 

[bill4long]

"GMRS", per se, started in 1987. Prior to that, those frequencies belonged to class A and class B Citizens Band. One might argue that it's the "same thing", but significant differences exist between the old class A/B CB and GMRS. Moreover, according to my search, there are no longer any grandfathered business licenses on those frequencies.

 

[bill4long]

Enforcement action against Rugged Radios for selling non-type accepted radios for use on multiple radio services, including GMRS:

What drove that enforcement was the fact Rugged Radios sells a ton of radios, and they were selling the radios with Land Mobile frequencies (and others that require type accepted radios, such as MURS, GMRS, marine, etc) pre-programmed into them and suggesting that people use Rugged Radios Land Mobile license on the Land Mobile frequencies! That's some serious brazen jackassery.

Unlicensed use of GMRS, type certification violation for FRS, etc….

I wonder if the FCC would have given that any attention had the offenders not been also transmitting on a Land Mobile frequency without a license. It would be interesting to see the citizen's complaint. At any rate, doing blatantly illegal stuff at a fixed location for a signicant time seems to be a bad idea. Minor infractions that cause no harm, however, such as using Part 90 radios on GMRS, are never enforced as far as anyone can demonstrate.

 

[mmckenna]

At any rate, doing blatantly illegal stuff at a fixed location for a signicant time seems to be a bad idea. Minor infractions that cause no harm, however, such as using Part 90 radios on GMRS, are never enforced as far as anyone can demonstrate.

Yep, as you said so well: "That's some serious brazen jackassery."

The FCC doesn't really care what happens on the personal radio services, unless such brazen action as said jackassery happens long enough and enough people complain. Usually, if someone really wants to skirt the rules and fly under the FCC radar, all they need to do is act like other licensed users and not do something really stupid. Stupid is what usually gets people busted.

Still, I at least try to give people straight answers regarding what the FCC rules say. If someone choses to thumb their nose at the FCC, that's up to them. But for a site with a lot of newcomers looking for accurate information, it's a good place to start.


As for Rugged Radios, they've had that coming for a long time. They knew what they were doing and gambled on not getting caught. Well, they got caught. Hopefully they've learned something, and part of me hopes it cost them enough money to hurt really bad for a long time.

 

[FPR1981]

You guys cited companies that were subject to action, and I agree, but not one individual can i find that was cited for general misuse.

And yes, 1987 was the per se beginning of GMRS, but you did not have GMRS radios being marketed toward consumers and in every department store until the late 1990s.

And FRS did not begin until 1996.

So to cite an infraction in the 1980s and compare it to the last 20 years would not be a fair comparison. As has been pointed out, the FCC is not coming after individuals unless they egregiously commit violations that make life a pain in the ass for someone else on a persistent basis.

 

[K4EET]

<snip> As has been pointed out, the FCC is not coming after individuals unless they egregiously commit violations that make life a pain in the a$$ for someone else on a persistent basis.

Along those lines, the FCC has gone after quite a few individuals mucking around in the Amateur service under Part 97 rules. And yes, the hams and the American Radio Relay League (ARRL) did a lot of the initial legwork compiling data for the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) to take the action.

On that note, before a moderator locks this thread for venturing too far off-topic, can we please try to limit the discussion in this thread to "Baofeng UV-5X is apparently FCC Certified for GMRS" and start a new thread if something else needs further discussion. Thanks folks!

 

[KD8DVR]

How did they screw this up?

Made GMRS frequencies hard coded to narrow band (GMRS is wide band).... amongst other things, like a hard coded pl tone.

 

[bill4long]

(GMRS is wide band).... amongst other things, like a hard coded pl tone.

Um, well, no, in GMRS wide band is legal, but so is narrow band. Are you sure that the radio in question doesn't do wide band?