bcd396t programming/memory question

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jakegday

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hello, i bought a bcd396t on ebay last night, i used the buy it now at $425 that includes the less then year old scanner, ALL original accessories, orignal box, and the pro version of arc396, the auction had only been up for 20 minutes and i figured it wouldnt last long, so it was now or never

my question is about the programming, and the using, i understand i wont be using "banks" anymore, which is where i get confused, i downloaded the owners manual, read through it, and it doesnt help AT ALL, so i started playing around with the arc396 software, now im even more confused. (i purchased a premium subscription here to help me out) i understand i have systems, groups, and channels. the systems have quick keys, which leads me to believe they are the "banks" is this true?
can someone explain to me in english exactly how the whole memory system works, or give me a link to something that explains it much better then the owners manual.... thanks!
 

jakegday

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but that is what you would turn on and off like a bank, correct?
 

Skud

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jakegday said:
but that is what you would turn on and off like a bank, correct?

yes, the difference is in the old bank system, you had so many channels and if you didn't use them, they were wated.
Now with a system, you only have as many channels(or talkgroups) as needed so if you are only using 2 channels(in the example of the pro 96), you are not wasting 48 other channels.
 

n2mdk

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Yes if it's easier for you to think in terms of Banks Sub Banks.Scan lists etc.
A system is like a bank with out waste of channels, Systems have groups which work like sub banks or scan lists. There are System Quick Keys that turn the systems on and off like banks and Group Quick Keys that do the same with the groups. Once you get used to it it makes organization of frequencies and Talkgroups very easy to arrange and control.
 

MarkEagleUSA

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A Conventional System has 1 or more Groups which have 1 or more Channels. To listen to a single frequency (Channel) you need 1 System with 1 Group containing the 1 Channel. A typical Conventional System might look like:

Sys: My Hometown
Grp: Police
Ch: Dispatch
Ch: Detectives
Ch: Tactical​
Grp: Fire
Ch: Dispatch
Ch: Fireground A
Ch: Fireground B
Ch: EMS​

A Trunking System has 1 or more Groups with 1 or more Talkgroup ID's. On a Trunked System, the frequencies (typically control channels) are stored in the System, not the Channels. A typical Trunk System might look like:

Sys: State Police
Grp: East District
Ch (TGID): Dispatch
Ch (TGID): Car to Car
Ch (TGID): Traffic​
Grp: West District
Ch (TGID): Dispatch
Ch (TGID): Car to Car
Ch (TGID): Traffic​

On the 396, Conventional frequencies cannot be included in Trunk Systems and vice versa. However, a Conventional System and Trunked System can shared a System Quick Key.
 

br0adband

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Welcome to the wonderful world of dynamic memory allocation...

What's been said already pretty much covers the bases. The biggest issue with most people new to either scanners or new specifically to dynamic memory is getting past that decades old "banks, channels" concept. It's tough, believe me I know. The first 3 days or so I had a Uniden BC-246T, the first dynamic memory allocation scanner, I nearly threw it across the room a few times - luckily I was just throwing the manual. :)

But anyway, I did have a lightbulb moment where it all just made sense, and in that one moment I realized just how superior using DMA (Dynamic Memory Allocation, basically) is and how much it changes the face of our hobby.

To put it bluntly, everything in your scanner needs to be part of a system. You can have conventional systems, aka the old style single frequency multipurpose communications style. You can also have trunked systems, aka the newer style multifrequency hopping multipurpose communications style.

When you create a system, of either kind, you then populate it with groups, which would be akin to how banks functioned in the old scanning memory/storage methodology. Say you had a 100 channel scanner that had 10 banks of 10 channels each. Say your local police used 4 frequencies for all their traffic, so you might have programmed in the first 4 channels of bank 1 as Police stuff. Then let's say your city had 4 frequencies of fire traffic, so you then programmed bank 2 with those 4 frequencies/channels. That way you could turn off bank 2 if you wanted to just hear police, or turn off bank 1 and just use bank 2 to monitor fire.

This was more efficient than constantly locking/unlocking the individual channels as required; you simply disabled an entire bank at once because each bank was assigned to a purpose - and that's exactly what the function of a group is in today's DMA scanners.

A group is the same thing as a bank, more or less: a grouping of particular conventional frequencies (since each of those is typically a "channel") or a selection of particular talkgroup IDs (TGIDs) that identify specific purposes (like "South Patrol" or "Car-to-Car 1" etc). Inside the groups you'd then have the frequencies (aka channels) or you'd have the selected TGIDs bunched together and then give the group a name, like "Police" or "Fire" etc.

The mixup comes from the similar terminology: banks aren't really used anymore so that's out in common discussions nowadays (some stuff still has banks, like the Radio Shack mid to low end stuff, Pro-97, etc, 10 banks of 100 channels for 1000 total, etc). It's when you talk about channels and groups and systems where things get really confusing for those new to DMA style frequency and memory management.

The post above this one is pretty well laid out, I was going to do a similar diagram but that one works fine. Systems break down into conventional or trunked; then those systems break down into groups; inside the groups is where the real stuff is, either the conventional system frequencies or the trunked system talkgroups.

That's about it.

You define a system first, then you create groups, then you populate the groups with frequencies (aka channels for conventional systems) or talkgroup ID codes for trunked comms.

QuickKeys make it easy to enable or disable a System that you've created, and then you can enable or disable individual groups inside that system using GroupQuickKeys. So, if you're coming from using "bank" scanners, you probably know you could disable an entire bank when the scanner was in Scan mode just by pressing the keypad digit that corresponded to the bank you wanted to enable or disable.

In my example above with bank 1 for Police and bank 2 for Fire, on a Radio Shack "bank" scanner you'd press 0 to turn off the first bank if it was already enabled, and the 0 digit on the display would disappear - if the 0 was visible, it means that bank is enabled. Radio Shack did have that weird way of starting with 0 as the first of anything instead of starting with 1, but it made sense because most of their equipment designed by GRE was based on the 10 bank style = 0 through 9 is 10 digits, although I would have preferred 1 through 0 myself. :)

As I said, the biggest hurdle with someone new to DMA is getting past that old bank style thing. The downside to banks obviously was huge amounts of wasted channels that simply went unused. If you wanted to monitor one small number of frequencies and nothing else, say 4 or 5 frequencies, then you could theoretically lose upwards of 96 channels from being wasted and unusable in the same bank.

With DMA, that wasted memory is no longer an issue because the scanner only uses precisely the necessary amount of space to store the system/group/channels info you're creating.

To put it in the easiest possible terms, everything is now considered to be a channel, and you can group together channels, and the groups of channels make a system, more or less. No more banks... :)

It's not as bad as it seems, really, it just takes time to get to that "AHA!!!" moment most if not all of us got to when DMA finally made sense. After that, this stuff is a breeze.

Good luck...
 

jakegday

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GREAT information guys! seriously, very helpful
i have a couple questions though, i still havent received the scanner but i am playing around with arc396 and importing information from this website. in arc396, on the spreadsheet looking thing, is the "name" column the alpha tag? also, in regards to the "trunk id" column, it seems to match the "dec" column in the database, however in the database there are extra columns, for a project25 standard system there is a HEX column i dont see in the program, and in an edacs system there is an AFS column thats i dont see in the program, are these pieces of information important? or are they already programmed in somewhere i dont see? i was also wondering, if i had to program the entire thing by hand (a trunked system), what all from the database would i need? like which column(s) would i use?
 
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br0adband

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I've never owned a digital capable scanner yet, and someday I will, so for now all I can comment on is conventional and trunked systems.

Literally, in its most basic form, to listen to a conventional system you need two things:

- the scanner
- the frequency or frequencies you want to monitor

And literally, in its most basic form, to listen to a trunked system you need two things:

- the scanner
- the frequency or frequencies of the control channels

and that's it.

You create a system, and then you define the parameters (conventional or trunked, if trunked you choose which sub-type like Motorola, EDACS, LTR, etc), set system hold time, delay time, etc. For trunked systems two additional parameters would be to set:

1) you would set it for Control Channel Only monitoring so you only need the CC frequency/frequencies. You program in the designated frequencies and then hit Scan.
2) you would set it for ID Search mode which would allow the scanner to receive any and all possible talkgroup IDs that are sent over the control channel. If you set the scanner for ID Scan mode this works like a "squelch" of sorts, and the scanner will only stop on and allow you to listen to talkgroup IDs which currently exist in memory: for a brand new system with only the control channels programmed and functioning, you'd have zero TGIDs in the unit so obviously if ID Scan is enabled, you're not going to hear anything and the scanner will scan forever. So the ID Search setting is crucially important following this basic formula.

That's all there really is to it.

When monitoring a conventional system with just that much effort, you'll get transmissions on the given frequency/frequencies and the actual frequency will appear. After that's done, then you can go back and do the extra capabilities such as create groups with designated purposes, put in more frequencies, begin to label the channels/groups you've input with proper alphanumeric tags for easier identification as well.

For a trunked system with that much effort, you'll start picking up transmissions (as long as you've made sure the system is set for ID Search - this is the default setting for a newly created system, luckily) and noting the decimal format talkgroup IDs as they appear. Not all trunked systems use 5 character talkgroups, some use 2 digit, 3 digit, and 4, but 5 digits is fairly common for most. Here in Vegas I have several casinos that use 2 digit and 3 digit ones, a few with 4, but most of the business related trunked systems very rarely use 5 digit TGIDs - that seems to be exclusive to most public safety systems I monitor.

The basic gist of talkgroups is this: even when you get all the TGIDs programmed in and properly alpha tagged, sometimes it's a good idea to just use ID Search mode instead of ID Scan because you never know when a new TGID may be assigned and put into use. If you have all the "known" TGIDs in your scanner for a given system, and you keep it set for ID Search, when a new one is used, it'll show up as just the TGID on the LCD: "TGID: #xxxxx" or whatever, and you can immediately see it and realize "Hey, that's a new one!" so you reach over and hit Enter as fast as you can, or try to keep the TGID in your head till you can write it down.

In ID Scan mode, you never see TGIDs that aren't already programmed in, that's the downside but that's the purpose. You create Groups that only have the TGIDs you want to monitor and go from there, that makes organization and specific monitoring so easy.

Here on the SNACC system I monitor in Vegas (Southern Nevada Area Communications Council), as of this morning I can check my database of "known" and identified talkgroups (culled from many sources and cross-checked constantly) and see 297 "known" TGIDs, but when I look at Unitrunker's data files culled from 2 months of nearly constant trunk tracking, it's got 370 total, so I've still got a ton of 'em that have not been properly identified as of yet.

Then there's the 5,073 radios I'm still trying to ID also; got about 400 of 'em so far, long long way to go. :) And that's just one of the two huge Motorola SmartZone setups her e in this area, too. Bleh...

So... don't worry, when you get the 396T you'll be up and running in no time right along with the rest of us. Someone else can answer about digital systems as I said; I just have no firsthand experience with those as of yet, but someday...
 

n2mdk

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jakegday said:
GREAT information guys! seriously, very helpful
i have a couple questions though, i still havent received the scanner but i am playing around with arc396 and importing information from this website. in arc396, on the spreadsheet looking thing, is the "name" column the alpha tag? also, in regards to the "trunk id" column, it seems to match the "dec" column in the database, however in the database there are extra columns, for a project25 standard system there is a HEX column i dont see in the program, and in an edacs system there is an AFS column thats i dont see in the program, are these pieces of information important? or are they already programmed in somewhere i dont see? i was also wondering, if i had to program the entire thing by hand (a trunked system), what all from the database would i need? like which column(s) would i use?

The radio doesn't use the HEX so don't worry about it. It can change between the AFS and DEC displays on EDACS systems, you can simply change it with the menu of the radio or go into the Trunk System Parameters and change DEC to AFS in the box within ARC396. That will set the system in AFS when it shows up on the radios display. I believe the software will still show it as DEC
 

jakegday

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well i got the scanner yesterday, very fast shpping, and ive been playing around with it since, im am AMAZED by how much more complex this is then my pro 83, i absolutely love this thing, it took me an hour or so to get the basics but i am on a roll with figuring this thing out, one thing i do not get though is the p25 level, if i set it to auto it goes back to the last screen, it does the same thing if i put it on manual, how do you adjust it when its on manual??

also, does this thing stll recharge the batteries when it is turned on?
 
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LordJ

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I have it programmed in the software, Manual just holds on whatever threshold number you have it set on, and auto starts on that same threshold you have set, then tweaks as the conversation goes on. Search for AGC Tweak to understand thresholds a little more. As for the battery thing.. dunno if it charges while on, I never charge my batteries in the unit. It's not a robust charging circuit, so I charge my batteries with a seperate charger. I have the internal switch set to alkalines all the time so it disables the charging circuit, and when I plug it in it simply powers the radio.
 
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