Bell P25 Grief

[Ensnared]

Well, I don't have the heart to read this yet. I don't know how widespread this disease will spread, but it is hitting Killeen. I saw this story on the local Channel 10 news broadcast this morning.

Killeen Police Department Transitions to Encrypted Radio Transmissions

 

[WB5UOM]

As I understand it, all of Bell County

 

[Ensnared]

As I understand it, all of Bell County

Damn. I was expecting this. Is there any rumor about open dispatch, or is it going to be a Wilco?

 

[StatuSChecKa]

Let me ask you this...TPD supposed to have transitioned a few years ago but you can still pick them up on Simulcast.
Was Killeen the last straw, will the Simulcast go down?

 

[aimedtoannoy]

I forget which talk group it was but I later found out it was temple. They had 1 channel that was encrypted, I could see it pop up on trunk recorder throughout the day. one day it suddenly wasn’t encrypted for dispatch. What it looked like was dispatch was open but mobiles were encrypted. I noticed this from about 12am to 10am. Haven’t come across that TG unencrypted since. It may have been a some type of taskforce within the department not sure but it sounded like routine traffic. If I find the file or talk group I’ll post an update. Also want to add while this was going on, the normal dispatch channel 51185 was normal operation.

Update: this may be just me but while I wrote this post I decided to check my history for temple pd and had a 14 hour gap where I didn’t receive any TPD transmission however I just heard a handful but was very broken.

 

[HiddenLefty]

gotta hide all their crime from prying ears, but seems like it's been happening a while and you can basically call it a Wilco as I see

 

[Ensnared]

I have been following a talk group from years ago. Previously, I documented the various PV talk groups I heard when the firmware upgrade was first offered. I don't believe LE knew about the upgrade because they were way too chatty.

I never could ID this group. I kept detailed notes of this talk group. I changed the AFS to DEC and then applied the "50+" conversion method. The last time I looked on the RR page for Bell P25, this talk group was not present. I was monitoring this talk group, but I misplaced the recorded files in the computer.

Since I could not ID this talk group of mostly surveillance activity, I was going to ask for additional help; however, now it is not worth the effort.

Oh well. I will likely survive this.

 

[aimedtoannoy]

listening to the radio right now, tlets is still up but it looks like alot if not all of LE dispatching is coming from the 6xxxx's now so no real way to know whos who, plus those TG are what im assuming wild cards and change throughout the day.

 

[aimedtoannoy]

 

[Ensnared]

Yesterday, I was monitoring KPD OCU.

 

[BaLa]

Lots of New ENC TGs showing up they're all
513xx or
503xx
--

51341 or xx342 seems to be Temple PD Dispatch

51352 or xx351 seems to be Killeen PD Dispatch

Also it appears they are currently creating Supergroups with the ENC traffic and some of it is still in the clear.
Like now 65184/50289/51351 for KPD, haven't seen the same for TPD.



Usually the 65xxx were previously only used for Fire/EMS Dispatches.

Anyway whatever
It is what it is...



I partially blame the streamers for this anyway, but that doesn't matter either.

 

[aimedtoannoy]

I’ve been logging UID from tlet channels and seeing where they pop up in the 51’s to try and figure out what encryption channel is what. I’m starting to see a pattern in the UID format so it may get a little easier to decipher what UID is for what department. Kicking myself in the butt for not saving the ID log I had a few months back.

 

[BaLa]

I never logged or listened to KPD much.
Anyway as of right now the old 50289 is being patched with 51351.
289 being clear still.


TPD TGs are not currently doing the same but I did log RID/UIDs previously.. I do believe they are using 51341 for TPD Dispatch.


I think the patching thing is Temporary as well.
So...if you're in the area now would be a good time to catch as many UID/RIDs for KPD.

Not sure how that's coming across on the scanners? I'm just using Unitrunker.
My SDS is a $600 paperweight and my 436HP hates this Simulcast BS.

 

[aimedtoannoy]

I never logged or listened to KPD much.
Anyway as of right now the old 50289 is being patched with 51351.
289 being clear still.


TPD TGs are not currently doing the same but I did log RID/UIDs previously.. I do believe they are using 51341 for TPD Dispatch.


I think the patching thing is Temporary as well.
So...if you're in the area now would be a good time to catch as many UID/RIDs for KPD.

Not sure how that's coming across on the scanners? I'm just using Unitrunker.
My SDS is a $600 paperweight and my 436HP hates this Simulcast BS.

I’m using trunk-recorder and I have everything being logged right now. Going to isolate all the ID’s and find good audio samples and try and map it all out later this week.

 

[JTexas539]

I just hope they get some patched TG with GATRRS and HOTRRS now. Its currently absurb how interop works to the north and south.

 

[WB5UOM]

Something absurb in Public Safety ?
not possible. LOL

 

[Project25_MASTR]

I just hope they get some patched TG with GATRRS and HOTRRS now. Its currently absurb how interop works to the north and south.

What would that actually accomplish form the mutual aid point though? There isn't enough coverage overlap in the case of Bell County/GATRRS and Bell County/HOTRRS to really make full time patches a practical option. Also radios don't seamlessly roam between to desperate systems as they can roam between different WACNs, different SIDs, etc but you need to have common talkgroup IDs to alloww for that due to how the systems are setup in the radios so going from GATRRS to Bell or Bell to HOTRRS doesn't make a ton of sense because Bell County's TGIDs are based off of the old EDACs system, HOTRRS are based off of the old City of Waco SmartNet fleetmap (because Motorola continued to teach fleetmap in the Type II days) so it would take a ton of planning and coordination to make that happen...versus doing what is already in fairly common practice and just issuing IDs on system with interop talkgroups for mutual aid. Responding mutual aid simply switches their radios to the system being used by where they are needed and Bob's your uncle.

 

[JTexas539]

Something absurb in Public Safety ?
not possible. LOL

Oops. Late night spelling, sorry.

What would that actually accomplish form the mutual aid point though? There isn't enough coverage overlap in the case of Bell County/GATRRS and Bell County/HOTRRS to really make full time patches a practical option. Also radios don't seamlessly roam between to desperate systems as they can roam between different WACNs, different SIDs, etc but you need to have common talkgroup IDs to alloww for that due to how the systems are setup in the radios so going from GATRRS to Bell or Bell to HOTRRS doesn't make a ton of sense because Bell County's TGIDs are based off of the old EDACs system, HOTRRS are based off of the old City of Waco SmartNet fleetmap (because Motorola continued to teach fleetmap in the Type II days) so it would take a ton of planning and coordination to make that happen...versus doing what is already in fairly common practice and just issuing IDs on system with interop talkgroups for mutual aid. Responding mutual aid simply switches their radios to the system being used by where they are needed and Bob's your uncle.

They currently have neither. I didn’t mean full-time patches by the way. I agree it would be better to switch to a mutual aid talkgroup on the closest system. I also agree with all of the rest of the facts you stated. Sadly life isnt so simple.

They have some coordination and cooperation issues. Mainly because there are a mix of Motorola and Harris systems, frequencies, and phase 1/phase 2. For example, bell county uses exclusively 700/800 Harris system with supergroups. GATRRS is a mix of 700/800 and VHF. And McLennan is 700/800 but they use phase 1 Motorola & Kenwood radios. All new radio IDs should match the Texas state guidelines, and should be able to be used across any system without interference of RIDs but physical radio units might not be able to cooperate with the neighboring system as well as might be expected if they were all using the latest and greatest stuff. I mean why not just go with LTE at that point 😂. (I’m totally kidding about LTE)

Since they usually work the fringes and coverage overlaps enough a dispatch controlled patch between commonly known mutual-aid talk groups on each system would be the most practical for the ground users at the current date.

In the end, they (the guys that sit around and look at the map without current on the ground experience) want to be able to have talk groups that can be instantly patched through every system from NTIRN, Hill County, HOTRRS, Bell and GATRRS for incidents along IH35 corridor. Mainly for law enforcement, aka DPS & Sheriff, but also major crashes. Nice to think about, a bit interesting to implement.


I apologize. This conversation seems to have got seriously off track from what the OP posted…

 

[KG1ADP]

It is my understanding that ALL law enforcement is going enc in Bell County.

 

[Ensnared]

If Temple & Killeen dispatch were eliminated leaving most of the other LE alone, I would be a happy man. Most of the time, I turn off Killeen dispatch. I prefer listening to the good stuff.

When I am looking at Temple PD in the RR DB, I am seeing three "T" talk groups without any "E." I am sure this is premature, but I am trying to be hopeful. Like I said, I heard & recorded KPD OCU after the "E" date of activation. I will be returning to Temple today to see if I can hear anything. I hope Bell SO stays in the clear.

Of course, by not having dispatch channels for Temple & Killeen, crooks could not monitor an online source. Since tactical talk groups are disallowed, maybe these will be left alone. The person with the scanner app would be left in the dark.