Bergen County Communications Trunk System

[jaymatt1978]

I can tell you my source does know the difference between digital and encrypted. HE SAID ENCRYPTED and I trust him. He also specifically said the reason why Bergen County was encrypting the entire system was because of scanners on the Internet. Again don't shoot the messenger, I'm not here for the debate and I want this topic to stay open. However I would also like to keep the dialogue

I guess I'll believe it when I see it. I wonder if the source (not the poster) understands the difference between encryption, digital and those digital formats that just can't be scanned (not really encrypted).

No flame, just a question.

 

[Highpockets]

I have decided to no longer update Bergenscanner.com with regards to the county. What's the po-int? _I'm sure someone ,will find the talkgroups and they'll- eve8ntually post them in the database, but I'm not wasting my energy. I also heard from someone in the county and one of the reasons why they are encrypting is because they are tired of the Internet feeds being so accessible. Before for we get into a flame war, don't shoot the messenger

It's a shame you'll no longer update your site, I've visited it many times and used the info posted, it has come in handy.

 

[Alarmguy]

I guess I'll believe it when I see it. I wonder if the source (not the poster) understands the difference between encryption, digital and those digital formats that just can't be scanned (not really encrypted).

No flame, just a question.

You know I was just thinking the same thing last night Ken... There is a lot of mis-information in the age of information.

 

[radiomanNJ1]

ADP comes with the radios depending on the "deal" for nothing or almost nothing. It still makes it unreadable for the scanner users.

I mentioned several times that the posting of events, live or late was an issue. One of the biggest reasons for the encryption now is the phone apps. When they found out about that from people in the back seat behind the cage of a crown vic the administrators were not happy.

This is a full only digital system and looks like it will be a FULL meaning every talkgroup being encrypted. It has been heard on the scanner. Inital testing has been in the clear with subsequent tests now being done encrypted.

It's probably DES-OFB (56 bit). I don't think they splurged for AES-256, but I could be wrong.

 

[SCPD]

Too much of a good thing?

With the advent of Bergen County Communications switching to a digital trunked and totally encrypted system, along with a number of other agencies here in NJ and around the country. One reason being stated is internet broadcasting of various scanner feeds such as offered here at RR and their availability to be monitored via “smart phones” via various applications available. I need not name all the brands here.
Take a good look at the feed page and focus in on the larger cities and regions throughout the country. Some of the feeds will have an excessive amount of listeners sometimes exceeding 300+ on one feed, notwithstanding a high volume of listeners that a feed may incur during an incident. I am stating these high amounts of listeners are regulars who monitor a particular feed (s) every day. One can assume the demographic break down of the listeners would be; (I wish I knew the percentages’)

• · Scanner enthusiasts and hobbyist

• · News media (TV, Radio & News Paper):lol:

• · Off or On Duty Public Safety personnel PD,FD & EMS (Fed, State, Co, Local etc)

• · Fire buffs and Ambulance Chasers:roll:

• · “The bad guys” Drug Dealers, Gangs etc.

Especially in the larger urban areas who would actually be the largest group monitoring a particular feed at any time especially with the ease and availability of a “smart phone”, “the bad guys”?

Never mind the radio sales persons pushing agencies to full time encryption. With today’s technology, access to feeds, smart phones and their applications it just could be “the bad guys” are tipping the scale to have agencies encrypt their communications..all day all the time.
I can see and understand why agencies are switching and feed providers modifying what can be broadcast. Has it just become too much of a good thing?



Thanks for reading...

 

[mike4164]

I have to point this out,maybe someone will think the way I am thinking right now. If the drug dealers and criminals are using the scanners and websites to monitor PD and such now what makes the agencies think they wont when they are encrypted?? Think about it,they are already breaking the law and most of them have the money to buy devices to break the encryption,so why wont they??? Just something to think about. What they should do is have a group of frequencies for the drug raids and other things such as warrants and have those encrypted and NOT published and leave the rest clear or digital. Maybe it's just me but I think that could work.Law breakers will always break the law no matter what.Whats your opinions???

 

[SCPD]

Yes, all that may be true and I agree. It's "the bad guys" who have the tools to do what they need to decipher. However its "us" the scanning regular "joe" who gets shorted as more and more agencies "go over to the dark side" Get my point?

 

[kenisned]

Those bad guys are not listening to fire/ems/dpw/buses/dogcatcher... In fact, if they listen to PD operations there isn't a whole lot they'll get from it. I think for the number of times this would actually be a factor, its overkill.

Why encrypt everything.. just seems excessive.

 

[railtrailbiker]

Why Do They Want To Encrypt?

US Government law enforcement agencies encrypted to prevent bad guys from listening. Most people who purchased scanners were not listening to the Feds, and the media didn't listen to them on a regular basis either.

However, Local, County, and State government agencies are monitored on a routine basis by scanner enthusiasts, members of the general public, the media, and bad guys. I personally believe the primary reason why these agencies encrypt is to prevent the media and members of the general public from showing up at incidents.

The Internet has completely changed the way in which news is gathered and reported. News articles, still photos, and videos are disseminated immediately via the Internet (cellphones with cameras and smartphones are everywhere). Previously, news had to wait for the next scheduled radio or tv broadcast, or the next publication date in the case of hard copy periodicals. In the past, video was captured only with sophisticated camera equipment and still photos required film to be developed. Now everything happens instantly.

Politicians don't like to read bad news about their respective communities. Prosecutors don't want photos of crime scenes appearing other than those taken by their staff members. It's very tough to control the flow of information now that everything happens in a flash. But one way to stop "bad news" and potentially harmful photos is to prevent anyone from knowing about news when it happens.

Encryption ensures that no one but those with the encryption code hear about incidents on a real time basis. Of course, someone on the "inside" could still pick up the phone and tip a friend on the "outside," but how likely will this happen on a regular basis?

For those of you who don't believe that controlling the flow of information is a concern of law enforcement officials, I share this true story: Approximately six (6) patrol officers of an unnamed police department in Bergen County were deployed immediately following the shooting of Paramus Patrol Officer Rachel Morgan to specifically prevent anyone with a camera from taking photos at the scene of the shooting. The parking lot of PC Richard and Eistien Moomjy was secured by this team at the direction of unknown officials. Tapes of 2-way radio traffic that evening will confirm this statement.

 

[asnhnetwork]

It is a little hard to listen to tapes from an unnamed police department if we do know who that department is. If this is encryption is being done for safety then kudos to Bergen County for spending the money in that effort. If it is being done to cover up embarassments or to black out the media and scanner hobbyists then shame on them. This a hobby for me and I will miss listening to them but I will adjust. It is what it is and we will just have to live with this. The Bergen Record reports that Englewood PD is facing an expenditure to upgrade it's radio system by 2013 or face daily fines BY The FCC. I wonder if they will consider joining the County system or further neglecting their need for a 20th Century firehouse and spend money on a new radio system.

 

[railtrailbiker]

FCC Required Equipment Upgrades

The Record is correct; use of wide band (25 kHz channel spacing) radio equipment must cease by January 1, 2013. The FCC says that all commercial radios in use must be narrowbanded (12.5 kHz channel spacing) by that date.

According to the Radio Reference Database, the following Police Departments in Bergen County are currently using wide band base station equipment:

Alpine
Bergenfield
Cliffside Park
Closter
Cresskill
Emerson
Englewood
Englewood Cliffs
Fairview
Fort Lee
Garfield
Glen Rock
Hackensack
Harrington Park
Hasbrouck Heights
Hillsdale
Leonia
Little Ferry
Lodi
Lyndhurst
Mahwah
Midland Park
Montvale
Moonachie
Northvale
Norwood
Oakland
Old Tappan
Paramus
Park Ridge
Ramsey
Ridgefield
Ridgewood
River Edge
Rochelle Park
Saddle Brook
Teaneck
Tenafly
Westwood
Woodcliff Lake
Woodridge

As a result of the State of NJ's clamp down on municipal spending, my guess is that many of these departments will choose to move over to the County's system rather than spend dollars on their own base station infrastructure. Given the January 1, 2013 deadline, most of these decisions will likely be made in late 2011 or early 2012.

The deciding factor for many municipal governing bodies, besides expense, will likely be the reliability of "in building" portable coverage.

Lodi will be the first to move, rumors are that the towns previously served by Closter's former dispatch center will be next.

 

[railtrailbiker]

It is a little hard to listen to tapes from an unnamed police department if we do know who that department is.

Ridgewood

 

[jaymatt1978]

Just FYI NARROWBAND equals deviation or whatever, NOT EXACT FREQUENCY,so I heard.The INPUTS need to change not actuallythe OUTPUTS. An example is River ValePD their input is 158.9625 and their output is still 155.1900

 

[kc2tek]

Hmm, I was just thinking it's time to upgrade to a digital scanner and then I saw this thread. Most of the towns I care about are still using non-trunked analog systems but I had my eye on the new GRE PSR-800 thinking it would let me hear the County and Fort Lee once they switch over. If not, guess I'll just save my money.

 

[railtrailbiker]

Just FYI NARROWBAND equals deviation or whatever, NOT EXACT FREQUENCY,so I heard.The INPUTS need to change not actuallythe OUTPUTS. An example is River ValePD their input is 158.9625 and their output is still 155.1900

The output frequency does not necessarily have to change, but the type of base station equipment deployed may have to change if it is not capable of transmitting 12.5 kHz deviation.

Take Mahwah for example. You can tell by just listening to the audio quality that their fire department is currently transmitting at 12.5 kHz deviation, but their police department is not (PD has higher audio). The same holds true if you listen to Ridgewood compared to Wyckoff or HoHoKus; Ridgewood has the better audio quality because their base station is still transmitting in wide band mode.

 

[redstar306]

If BCPD's reason to go encrypted is because of this forum...

Then RR should just take off the incidents sub-forum and make it a Radio Reference rule not to make threads about live events here and take off live feeds instead of encrypting every single radio, that's just insane, unnecessary, and otherwise capricious. Plus the usual chit chat found on the current dispatch channels is completely random stuff like car stops, county property checks, and K-9 requests. What benefit would it bring for a criminal to hear that?

 

[ScanXO]

Now in operation full time for County Police, Transportation Bus's, Animal Shelter, and EMS Ambulances
TG 201 & 205 Patrol units
TG 104 Animal Shelter units
TG 701 EMS ??
Convetional ch 9 477.2875 sounds like old ch 1 ch 1 477.1625 going to trunk system
many more TG showing up as users switch by the weekend

 

[CqDx]

ScanXO is the control channel still on 472.7125? I live in NYC and can't hear a peep on all the control channels.

Thanks

 

[radiomanNJ1]

It's way too late. The phone apps put our hobby/business out to everyone who has a smartphone. Sounded like a good idea I guess. I can't tell you the number of Chiefs and other law enforcement personnel who are upset over this. The scanner guys used to bother them but the scanner people mostly laid low. Encryption as I said before can be cheap and it will keep the bad and good guys from listening. I also said sometime ago not to post about hearing cops go into doughnut shops and similar things but no, people had to post. Again it's too late. It's here and it is not going away.

If BCPD's reason to go encrypted is because of this forum...

Then RR should just take off the incidents sub-forum and make it a Radio Reference rule not to make threads about live events here and take off live feeds instead of encrypting every single radio, that's just insane, unnecessary, and otherwise capricious. Plus the usual chit chat found on the current dispatch channels is completely random stuff like car stops, county property checks, and K-9 requests. What benefit would it bring for a criminal to hear that?

 

[ScanXO]

all freq's have been used as control channels, 477.1625 was ch 1 now a CC
TG 701 seems to be animal control units, so many tg's most are coming up encrypted, so like it or not its here enjoy as they add more and more,
those property checks, K9 calls, MV crashes, no more chases or homcides, shootings, medical examiner investigator calls - you wont hear much
unless you have thier radio copyed/clone
no need to hear that copy/clone cant be done ( it can) but thats for another thread
Lodi PD - keep ears out for when they may go over ......maybe FD soon, as they tested the radios last October.....where is 37.38..... so for 99% of us no more for the less than 1% hope thet pop up here with interceps