Bolivia, NC - Brunswick Co. still at odds over emergency radio system

[Thunderbolt]

BOLIVIA, N.C. - Brunswick County's radio system hasn't gotten any better, according to Calabash Fire Chief Randy Bork.

Brunswick Co. still at odds over emergency radio system - WECT TV6 - WECT.com - Wilmington, NC news and weather -

Second related article:

Restaurant fire sheds light on communication problem | WWAY NewsChannel 3 | Wilmington NC News

 

[radioman2001]

Instead of working with the Fire department seems like the system manger has a little Cesar attitude. That may work until some one gets killed, then his *** is on the line.

 

[davidgcet]

it sounds like a combination of system issues with the county AND lack of training on the FD side. fireground channels are required to be different from the dispatch channel so they have to change channels anyway. instead of switching to 2/3/4/etc, how hard is it to go to 5/10/whatever.

i believe they also have to be either simplex or using a dedicated fireground repeater on or near the site.

 

[kb2vxa]

You guys are right, bottom line here is a few are thick as a brick and these quotes pretty much say it all:

""It's my understanding that operations last night may not have been on the tactical fire ground channel," said Brunswick County Emergency Services Director, Anthony Marzano. "One of the things we will be working on for our fire chief's meeting in December is coming out with a recommended protocol for departments to switch to direct radio to radio operations when that would be warranted."

"When asked about the ongoing complaints, Anthony Marzano, the director of Brunswick County Emergency Management, said he's tired of having a few people refuse to use the system as directed."

 

[ts548]

What type of system are they using? It looked like a Kenwood handheld the guy had in the picture from the website.

 

[SCPD]

Brunkswick County System

Though I have not seen it. i have talked with them about it. It appears to be some kind of Kenwood Mobile Base system using 3 or 4 VHF channels and 2 or 3 UHF channel( law on 453 ) using some kind of common controller.- quasi LTR or ??? It sends out some kind of burst every 6 seconds I hear on one of my repeater channels in SC every so often..... I do not think its a packaged system but a collection of various equipment to construct a system. Thats what i was told a year ago by their system tech.. As Forest Gump sez "That all I can say about that........."

 

[yardbird]

Come on where did they hire this Emergency Management Director from?

Sounds like he has no real clue as to how the system works.

He also might be jobless if he starts trying to dictate to Fire Chief's of what they are going to do.

Last you get what you pay for.

I had a friend that used to work for Ameri-Tech and told me the system was a joke.

Time to look at either piggy backing off the Horry Co. 800 Mhz System, or look at Viper.

Sorry if I hit a nerve here, but Motorola is the best I have seen for Public Safety Communications.

I know Motorola is expensive, but anything that works like it is supposed to is worth the extra cost.

I might be wrong, but I think Wayne County may wind up in the same situation.

Just my thoughts

David

 

[902]

The chief is right. Neither he nor his firefighters are radio people. Communications systems need to be as intuitive as possible.

The chief is wrong. Fireground communications on the same frequency where alerting and dispatch takes place is dangerous (i.e., Hackensack, NJ, 1988), as there is the possibility that base station traffic intended for other agencies or to provide information to the incident commander could key over field units - particularly if the system is built on a repeater network using console priority (console priority seems to be an idea devised by a detached sales engineer in a lab, not someone who's ever needed to interrupt the dispatcher to get help).

Switching channels is a TRAINING issue and, from having done it for years, is no big deal. The hardest obstacle to overcome is the "can't be done" attitude.

Last item - WHY doesn't the radio system work? It's radio, not rocket science. Are the sites in the wrong place? Is this a single-site system and the antenna's so high that it's picking up junk from 90 miles away better units than in town? Are there no voting receivers? Needed a $50,000 radio system and someone built it from old GE MASTR II strips for $200? Why?

Something about this story seems like we've got a peeing contest between incompatible personalities more than it does the system's broken and can't be fixed.

 

[902]

Last item - WHY doesn't the radio system work?

I might have spoken too soon. After looking in the database, they're using a 10 site 3 talkpath per site LTR system (probably Passport). If I had the money to bet, I'd bet they've got channel acquisition time problems, like taking 1.5 seconds or more to get an initial channel grant to talk. Also VHF is a horror show for co-channel and adjacent channel interference.

Law enforcement is using an LTR system on UHF. I wonder if they're having any problems, or if they've adapted to the system?

 

[ts548]

I'll say it again, LTR was never meant to be a PS system. Whoever sold them this system must have been a great salesmen

 

[Baylink]

The more I read about problems like this -- and the more I read the SAFECOM RoS, which is 20 or 30 minutes of delightful science fiction, depending on how fast you read...

and the more I look at the Harris XG-100 with its 159pp manual...

the more I think that system designers *don't get* that cops, firefighters, and EMTs are cops, firefighters and EMTs.

Not MOS 25C - Radio Operator/Maintainers.

Sure, you're going to need multiple channels.

But while you might need a display on the front, or top, you need *one big channel knob*, with 4 or 5 clicks, tops, with fixed assignments.

When they *do* get into an interop event, then you can deal with a little more complexity.

"Are they using the right trunking system" is a whole other layer of stupidity, of course.

 

[FireCop]

Brunswick County Fire/Rescue Trunking System, Bolivia, North Carolina - Scanner Frequencies

Brunswick County Law Enforcement Trunking System, Bolivia, North Carolina - Scanner Frequencies

The above are RR database links to the two systems, one for fire/ems, the other for law enforcement. The whole problem has been in place since the system was implemented. In the past, we had RR members constantly comment on the system and the powers that be for the county in the North Carolina Forums. Take some time and search for Brunswick County and read along!

To say a salesman did a great job is an understatement. Brunswick County has probably spent more on the systems now than if they had done a Motorola system right the first time. It also makes you wonder based on some of the "official" comments that someone may have monetary interests in going with the LTR system in the first place!

 

[kb2vxa]

It seems to me you haven't read the article or misunderstood it. I have outlined the salient points, read my first post again. Bottom line is a system is no better that it's operators, between training issues with standard fire protocols and just plain stubbornness they brought problems upon themselves.

 

[FireCop]

I read the article and your posts. I just don't agree totally with the county's or your assessments of the system, the uses, the training, etc. and am not looking for an online argument! As Forrest Gump said, "And that's all I have to say about that."

 

[KE4ZNR]

Knowing some inside scoop on this situation I can agree with FireCop 100% here. They were sold a crappy LTR system that no public safety agency should be using and depending on the first place. There have been technical issues since day 1 and no one is happy using this system. Hell, you could grab a set of simplex FRS radios from Wallyworld and have a better chance of successful comms across Brunswick County.
I will concede that poor training is also a roll in this but this crappy Mixed VHF/UHF LTR system might just be the worst designed radio system in history.
Just my 2 cents from the intel I have received from various people involved.
Marshall KE4ZNR

Brunswick County Fire/Rescue Trunking System, Bolivia, North Carolina - Scanner Frequencies

Brunswick County Law Enforcement Trunking System, Bolivia, North Carolina - Scanner Frequencies

The above are RR database links to the two systems, one for fire/ems, the other for law enforcement. The whole problem has been in place since the system was implemented. In the past, we had RR members constantly comment on the system and the powers that be for the county in the North Carolina Forums. Take some time and search for Brunswick County and read along!

To say a salesman did a great job is an understatement. Brunswick County has probably spent more on the systems now than if they had done a Motorola system right the first time. It also makes you wonder based on some of the "official" comments that someone may have monetary interests in going with the LTR system in the first place!

 

[yardbird]

Good posts here!

They need to go back and follow the NFPA guidelines for fire ground communications

Matter of fact all repeater and trunking system users need to follow the guidelines.

All fire ground channels need to be simplex operation.

That way there will be no communication issues if a repeater were to fail. You still have communications.

Just my thoughts again,

David

 

[SCPD]

Brunswick County Changed Freqs from the Day 1 channels?

When I was having significant interference problems they were using 3 channels 159.255 (My Andrews SC), 159.330 (My Lake Murray) and 154.8875. So after looking tonight at the database I have lost track of their system... So I will admit .. I no longer know how its set up ... up there...

Please no smart comments I admit its changed since I talked with someone involved with the system a while back... Yes Forrest is stupid or something!

 

[kb2vxa]

"I just don't agree totally with the county's or your assessments of the system, the uses, the training, etc. and am not looking for an online argument!"

Well, if you're not looking for an argument you really should stick with what a poster states. I never made an assessment of the system having no knowledge of it, nor did I even mention training or use, but rather the LACK of training and MISuse. Those were the main points of the article and mine so just what are you disagreeing with?

Don't mind me, I understand your confusion so stick with Forrest Gump since it's a rhetorical question anyway... you have the right to remain silent, anything you say can and will be used against you... (;->)

"They need to go back and follow the NFPA guidelines for fire ground communication."
Just another way of saying it.

"All fire ground channels need to be simplex operation."
That is a well documented fact.

"That way there will be no communication issues if a repeater were to fail. You still have communications."
Eh, rather half right. Actually more often than not portables in the field can't access repeaters directly so Fire Command in a truck continuously uses two channels, fire-ground simplex for portables and the channel 1 repeater for communication with headquarters.

 

[FireCop]

I can agree with the lack of training and maybe some on the misuse. My original post was to let folks know there are more issues with the system than what was stated in the article. KE4ZNR, being one of the NC admins, has seen along with me the postings from some of the end users of the system. The thing that isn't coming to light in the article is the county's "head in the sand" denial response that something's not wrong with the engineering, layout, and other technical aspects of the system. My original post was to let folks know there are more issues with the system than what was stated in the article (such as training) and to take some time to research that in the RR Forums or Archives.

 

[kb2vxa]

OK, I'll go with that.