Brand new to GMRS - looking for radios

[cuisinartoh]

I'm a newly licensed GMRS operator, call sign WQWW288. I don't have radios yet, though. I've spent the last week and half reading....and reading, and reading. I'm very grateful for all the wisdom on this forum, even if there is a lot of disagreement over some parts of the rules. I've read part 95 probably three times and even a newbie like me can see how poorly it was written.

I have tons of questions to ask, but for now I'll limit it to radio suggestions. I've read and re-read the recent threads about radio options and what radios are part 95 compliant. My initial thought was to get some Baofeng kit but mmckenna's words about staying square with the man inspired me to do the right thing. So that's where I need some help.

I want two sets of hand-held radios, that are compatible with each other (at least for simplex). Here are the needs:

- Radios for child use - GMRS - would want to keep them off repeaters
- Neighborhood: child-to-child
- Neighborhood: Parent-to-child
These are for the kids to carry around the neighborhood. The kids are 7. I want to be able to call them, talk to them, have them call me, and talk to each other. I intend to teach them how to behave and be good citizens, but it would be best to be able to isolate them from bothering other folks too much. But so I can reach them and they can hear me in the neighborhood, FRS probably isn't going to cut it. Small and easy to operate is good. I'm assuming a bubble-pack recommendation here. I don't know of a kid-friendly, programmable (by me) unit but let me know if such a thing exists.

- Radios for adult use - better simplex range + repeater capable
- Neighborhood: adult-to-adult
- Around town: adult-to-adult
- Camping/hiking/backpacking: adult-to-adult or adult-to-supervised child
These I want to be more rugged, more capable, more powerful, and relatively easy to program. At first, I'll stay simple with simplex but it would be fun to learn how to use repeaters, PL codes, squelch, etc. So being able to reprogram is good. Replaceable antennae would be good. Where I tend to go in the back country there are repeater networks that I hope to gain authorization to use.

Please don't flame me into the stone age. I'm brand new. My AARL study books for the tech license arrive tomorrow and I'll begin the studying for that. There will be 2m and 70cm radios in my near future too. But for now, I'm eager to learn more about GMRS as this will be helpful for my family.

Thanks in advance,
Ed

 

[mmckenna]

For the kids, I'd stick with the consumer grade FRS/GMRS radios. Just in case they lose one or it gets run over, eaten by the dog, flushed down the toilet, etc....
Lock the keypad so they can't wander off on another channel. Rechargeable batteries would be welcome. Just keep in mind that there are those out there that will be on the same channels. Young ears are not necessarily safe on GMRS.

For home, this is what I'd suggest:
Get a basic base radio. I used Icom F-420S UHF mobiles when I was active on GMRS. They are 4 channels only, but unless you plan to use it like a CB for random contacts, it's all you really need. Get a 12 volt power supply (15 amps or so). Put the money you'll save by buying a basic radio towards putting up a really good antenna system. A good antenna will make the system. You'd really be looking for a real base antenna mounted as high as you can safety get it. The higher the antenna the more range you'll get. You want high quality coaxial cable too. The exact type you need really depends on the length. I'd recommend nothing less than LMR600 or 1/2 inch heliax. It'll be expensive, but a well designed antenna system is key to system performance.

With the good base antenna, you'll be able to reach your kids no issue. Not sure how big your town is, but you shouldn't have any issue getting quite a bit of range out of this.

Mobiles:
A lot of choices. What I used many years ago is now old technology, and likely available on e-Bay. I used the Icom F-420, Icom F-2020 and Icom F-221. Good radios, will do what you need, but pretty old. Kenwood makes some nice stuff.

Adult portables:
Kenwood or Icom. Find something that others are willing to carry and use. You can spend a lot of money on fancy radios, but if you can't get your wife to carry and use it, it won't matter.
Keep it simple. It's easy to go for the top of the line with display, keypad, etc. That's nice if you are going to be using the radio for a lot of other functions, but it's not needed for most users. A simple radio tends to be easier for "non-radio types" to use. On-Off/Volume, PTT, maybe a channel selector. Keep it simple. More functions just makes it more confusing. If it's too easy to accidentally switch to the wrong channel, it'll be a real headache. If at all possible, find a radio that can be locked down. Making it so a user only has to worry about on/off/volume control and not accidentally change other settings is really important.

As for you, I'd suggest getting a radio that will not only work on GMRS, but also the 70cm amateur band. When you get your amateur radio license you can program in local amateur repeaters and expand your capabilities without having to purchase all new gear. All my Icom's were set up this way. A couple of GMRS channels as well as the local 70 CM amateur repeaters.

And, don't go half way by putting a cheap mag mount antenna on your vehicle. Start talking with your wife now about the importance of a good antenna. A good antenna is a permanent mount on the TOP of the vehicle roof. Properly installed and tuned antennas will really help performance.

Good luck. It's an expensive hobby, but it can be really a lot of fun.

 

[N4GIX]

I can't add much to the above except to say, "Welcome to the Insanity (er, I mean FUN)
I've been a ham for 47 years, but am only recently getting into GMRS myself.

 

[KD8DVR]

I think everyone here is getting you off to a good start. Enjoy

I would listen to the frequencies and select on that has no other close by use for your family; and be sure to use a pl or dpl tone.

 

[cuisinartoh]

Thanks for the feedback, mmckenna! I have lots of questions, but I'll keep this thread focused so I'll just ask two more:

Question 1:
With regard to radios for the kids (and likely wife), I'm seeing two that seem to be decent picks:
- Motorola Talkabout MS350R - primary feature here is busy channel lockout, repeater capable (only needed for wife...but I don't know if I can program for specific, local repeaters)
- Motorola Talkabout MT352R - Monitor channel, dual channel watch - I wonder if this would be best so I can have kids on one channel/PL but if I call on a family channel/PL they'll hear me

But, I think the most "friendly" thing is for me to get a radio that will prevent the non-radio people (kids, wife) from just talking over someone else transmitting. That's why I wonder if either or both of the channel lockout on the MS350R or the monitor channel on the MT352R will both do the same or if one is preferred to the other. Can anyone make a concrete recommendation?


Question 2:
For my radio, is it possible to get a radio that can do Ham 70cm and 2m as well as be legal for GMRS? I think I've seen radios that can do dual-band 70cm and 2m and technically be programmed for GMRS but aren't really legal (part 95 certified). Does such a beast exist that means I only need one radio?

Thanks!

 

[cuisinartoh]

Please disregard Question #1. I've come to realize that these radios are all very similar and the product manual for the MS350R states nothing at all about busy channel lockout.

Question #2 still stands, however

Thanks

 

[mmckenna]

Question 1:
I wouldn't count on any of the consumer grade radios being useful with repeaters. While some of them will support it, the limited power and inefficient antennas will make performance pretty painful. I'd stick with simplex only operation between the consumer hand held and your base.

The dual watch function might be handy, but scanning can lead to a lot of confusion. Knowing which channel to talk back on can be an issue. I'd stick with one frequency/PL/DPL for all your family if at all possible.

Question 2:
Yes, but it won't be cheap. You could go with the low end Chinese radios, many of them are dual band, but I'm not aware of any that are -really- Part 95 compliant. Known good dual/multi band radios are very expensive, as in several thousand dollars and I'm not sure if any of them have the Part 95 certification either. Might be easier/cheaper to have two radios.

 

[MrGClips]

I only read about ONE radio (currently unavailable) that is supposedly both Part 90 + 95 certified, which is the "Anytone Terminator - TERMN-8R" - https://anytonetech.com/TERMN-8R

It has GMRS/FRS/MURS/VHF/UHF with FM/AM/SW receiver in one (if I understand it correctly), but I can't find a single site selling it, only talking about it. They mention firmware issues and some even question the legality of the radios and their certifications, so I don't know.

 

[mmckenna]

I only read about ONE radio (currently unavailable) that is supposedly both Part 90 + 95 certified, which is the "Anytone Terminator - TERMN-8R" - https://anytonetech.com/TERMN-8R

It has GMRS/FRS/MURS/VHF/UHF with FM/AM/SW receiver in one (if I understand it correctly), but I can't find a single site selling it, only talking about it. They mention firmware issues and some even question the legality of the radios and their certifications, so I don't know.

There are some issues with that, however.

It cannot be certified for use on FRS if it has a removable antenna or any user accessible controls that will increase power.
MURS rules are pretty clear about MURS compliant radios cannot be certified with other services.

Of course it's possible to program them for this, but it's not technically legal.

 

[MrGClips]

There are some issues with that, however.

It cannot be certified for use on FRS if it has a removable antenna or any user accessible controls that will increase power.
MURS rules are pretty clear about MURS compliant radios cannot be certified with other services.

Of course it's possible to program them for this, but it's not technically legal.

I was thinking the same, but I've read that the FRS is hard-core programmed to have only 0.5 watt in order to comply and can not be changed, and so is MURS. I'm sure it's borderline, but this radio sounds fascinating on paper at least. I'd love to check it out if I could get my hands on one.

 

[bharvey2]

X2 on the advice that MMcKenna gave you. As far as radios go, Kenwood makes a number of radios that are Part 95 certified. Stick to the older ones like TK880 for mobiles or TK390 for handhelds and they can be had fairly inexpensively. Programming cables and software is reasonable as well. Wouxun, a Chinese brand has one or two that are Part 95 certified as well. They'll work but aren't nearly as rugged as the Kenwoods. I don't know of any dual band Part 95 certified radios.

 

[mmckenna]

There are some issues with that, however.

It cannot be certified for use on FRS if it has a removable antenna or any user accessible controls that will increase power.
MURS rules are pretty clear about MURS compliant radios cannot be certified with other services.

Of course it's possible to program them for this, but it's not technically legal.

Here's the bit from the MURS rules that covers this:
§95.645 Control accessibility.
...........
(d) No transmitter will be certificated for use in MURS if it is equipped with a frequency capability not listed in §95.632.


§95.632 MURS transmitter frequencies.
(a) The MURS transmitter channel frequencies are 151.820 MHz, 151.880 MHz, 151.940 MHz, 154.570 MHz, 154.600 MHz.

 

[MrGClips]

For a "bubble-pack" I also recommend the NEW Motorola T480, a stylish FRS/GMRS radio with FM built in. A bit more pricey than the others, but for dedicated FRS/GMRS it sounds and looks good: Motorola T480 2-Way Radio (Red and White) T480 B&H Photo Video

 

[bharvey2]

Here's the bit from the MURS rules that covers this:

(d) No transmitter will be certificated for use in MURS if it is equipped with a frequency capability not listed in §95.632.

I've read a little on this radio: It seems that to switch between MURS, GMRS and Amateur bands, you had to power down, and hold down a specific, band related key on power up. Therefore, it could only do one band at a time, there is no "switching channels" per se. I've also heard that this radio's certifications have been rescinded. Since my interest in this radio was academic only, I've never purchased one so I have no first hand experience.

 

[mmckenna]

I was thinking the same, but I've read that the FRS is hard-core programmed to have only 0.5 watt in order to comply and can not be changed, and so is MURS. I'm sure it's borderline, but this radio sounds fascinating on paper at least. I'd love to check it out if I could get my hands on one.

Right, FRS was hobbled like this on purpose. It was always intended to be a short range radio service. No more than 0.5 watts and a zero gain, non-removable, vertically polarized antenna.

FCC really screwed up when they allowed GMRS and FRS in the same radio. The MURS rule I listed above is an indication of that, they didn't want MURS/FRS/GMRS radios on the market. Too dang confusing for consumers. Rules can be contradictory.

 

[mmckenna]

I've read a little on this radio: It seems that to switch between MURS, GMRS and Amateur bands, you had to power down, and hold down a specific, band related key on power up. Therefore, it could only do one band at a time, there is no "switching channels" per se. I've also heard that this radio's certifications have been rescinded. Since my interest in this radio was academic only, I've never purchased one so I have no first hand experience.

Yeah, I'm kind of glad that the FCC yanked it's certification. Nothing against the radio itself, but the Chinese companies seem to be ignoring the FCC rules. Many of their interpretations of the FCC rules are incorrect. The documentation that gets filed is riddled with errors. Sometimes it's painfully obvious that the FCC isn't paying attention. Seeing that they at least caught one is sort of reassuring.

 

[MrGClips]

Unrelated comment: I've read that in the EU the PMR446 (FRS equivalent) radios also have the 0.5 limit, BUT, they allow the antennas to be removed/changed! Maybe it's time for the FCC as well to change some rules and keep up with the demands, which could/should include some positive flexible changes in GMRS and MURS as well, especially regarding the use of capable ham radios. That would simplify things.

 

[MrGClips]

Yeah, I'm kind of glad that the FCC yanked it's certification. Nothing against the radio itself, but the Chinese companies seem to be ignoring the FCC rules. Many of their interpretations of the FCC rules are incorrect. The documentation that gets filed is riddled with errors. Sometimes it's painfully obvious that the FCC isn't paying attention. Seeing that they at least caught one is sort of reassuring.

I would still be interested in one to see how it works as a dedicated ham radio. Most reviews are very positive about the "Terminator".

 

[mmckenna]

Unrelated comment: I've read that in the EU the PMR446 (FRS equivalent) radios also have the 0.5 limit, BUT, they allow the antennas to be removed/changed! Maybe it's time for the FCC as well to change some rules and keep up with the demands, which could/should include some positive flexible changes in GMRS and MURS as well, especially regarding the use of capable ham radios. That would simplify things.

Yeah, but we do have a lot more options here than they do in Europe. FRS was always intended to be a short range service.
GMRS does need to be changed. This has been in the works for a very long time. Many years ago FCC was taking comments and input on proposed GMRS rule changes, but it's been stagnant for a few years now. Looked like it was going somewhere at first, now it seems to have died on the vine. I'm not sure the outcome would have been better, though. Talks of doing away with repeaters, limiting to 5 watts, etc. all came up.

As for allowing amateur radios, I personally hope that never happens. Too many opportunities for things to get fouled up. It's pretty easy, though, to find suitable commercial radios and just program them for amateur radio use. Many of us have been doing that all along. I got rid of all my "amateur" radios. All my gear is now commercial stuff programmed with Part 90 stuff I'm licensed for or use at work as well as amateur simplex and repeaters.

 

[johnls7424]

Go for a basic hybrid radio