CalFire Narrow Banding

[scannerboy02]

I have been hearing some radio traffic over the past few weeks about narrow banding on the CalFire command channels. Last week I heard BTU ECC make an announcement about narrow banding but I missed most of the traffic and today around Noon I heard the NEU ECC do a few quick call tone tests for narrow banding.

I did a google search today and found meeting minutes from a number of government agencies (mostly in the NorCal area) discussing CalFire's narrow banding in December and January and how it will impact interoperability.

I was wondering if anyone has any info/frequencies for the narrow banded CalFire radio system?

If they are already doing narrow banded tone tests I would guess at least NEU command is on the air.

 

[K6CDO]

I have been hearing some radio traffic over the past few weeks about narrow banding on the CalFire command channels. Last week I heard BTU ECC make an announcement about narrow banding but I missed most of the traffic and today around Noon I heard the NEU ECC do a few quick call tone tests for narrow banding.

I did a google search today and found meeting minutes from a number of government agencies (mostly in the NorCal area) discussing CalFire's narrow banding in December and January and how it will impact interoperability.

I was wondering if anyone has any info/frequencies for the narrow banded CalFire radio system?

If they are already doing narrow banded tone tests I would guess at least NEU command is on the air.

At the moment, the state is just taking the current channels and changing them to narrowband. Any new channels will follow once the fleet is modified before next fire season.

 

[Duster]

K6CDO is correct. Currently CALFIRE is narrowbanding the current command and local nets...the tactical nets are pending, to be done in the next programming round in the spring.

NEU switched yesterday, BTU last week, and other NorCal Units either have within the last couple weeks or are going to within the next few weeks.

From a monitoring standpoint, there should be no frequency changes until the 2011 Fire Season load comes out, IF we get authorization for the interstitial frequencies in time.

 

[ScannerDude244]

That explains why I been hearing DC techs doing a lot of radio checks the past few weeks here in BEU.

 

[KMA367]

HUU changeover

Humboldt - Del Norte unit (151.25) plans to begin transitioning to narrowband next week. While the cutover is in progress they'll temporarily have both narrow and wideband repeaters at each mountaintop site, with separate uplink tones for wide or narrow. Same for the Command 1 and 2 sites in the unit.

 

[avtarsingh]

the majority of the cdf rptrs have already been changed out - they usually have new daniels mt4e
so its just a matter of changing the rptr programming -

and like kma announced cause theres multiple channels in there

 

[BlueZebra]

I am confused. Are the CalFire units starting to use the new narrow banded freqs for their locals. Or are they still waiting for final approvals? Do we know what the narrowbanded freqs are? The only newish one I see in the database that is narrowbanded is Comm 5, 151.3175.

 

[KMA367]

EDIT: Re-reading your post I just now focused on your using the word "use," and my response below didn't address that. In a quick perusal of the CAL-FIRE Local 151.25 licenses for my area (HUU) I see that none of the licenses here have been modified yet to include the narrow 11K2F3E emissions. Several mod applications are pending, but I don't see that any have been granted, at least for the base and repeater stations. I haven't been able to tell if they're in fact using narrow or not. They're pretty darn quiet in this rainy weather, and I don't listen all that much. Perhaps freqs in other Units have gotten their narrowband authorizations.

I am confused. Are the CalFire units starting to use the new narrow banded freqs for their locals. Or are they still waiting for final approvals? Do we know what the narrowbanded freqs are? The only newish one I see in the database that is narrowbanded is Comm 5, 151.3175.

Yes, they are well into the process of narrowbanding the existing Local Dispatch and Command 1 and 2 frequencies. Same frequencies as before, but with narrow bandwidth.

Next will come the tactical frequencies getting narrowbanded and somewhere along the line they'll start adding the "interstitial" frequencies (7.5 khz spacing, thus with 4 digits after the decimal) to effectively double the number of frequencies available within existing frequency ranges.

E.g., in CDF's 151 Mhz range between say, 151.22-151.28 where we now have,

151.22
151.235
151.25
151.265
151.28

after narrowbanding there will be available

151.22
151.2275
151.235
151.2425
151.25
151.2575
151.265
151.2725
151.28

 

[BlueZebra]

So, for example, they will continue to use 151.460 for LNU West, but it will be 151.4600 in the radios?

 

[KMA367]

So, for example, they will continue to use 151.460 for LNU West, but it will be 151.4600 in the radios?

I don't know much about the electronics in radios, or how the frequency values are formatted internally, but like math in general, trailing zeroes after a decimal have no numerical significance. So 151.46 is the same as 151.460 or 151.4600 (or 151.4600000000000). And different radios may carry the numbers out to more places, either within the radio or on the display or both. Remember when scanners all used to round off at the second or third place after the decimal?

There are many frequencies in the 700 MHz band that have "natural numbers" (integers other than zero) out at least five places after the decimal, such as 769.33125. As technology improves, and frequencies can be squoze closer together, they'll be able to, and have to, carry the numbers out farther and farther.

In my narrowband freq example list in post #8, it would have been just as accurate to have it

151.2200
151.2275
151.2350
151.2425
151.2500

If you look at the CAL-FIRE KA3134 FCC license information http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/Uls...p?freqType=E&licKey=1240846&pageNumToReturn=1 you'll see that even though almost all are still wideband only, the frequencies are all shown with 6 places before the decimal and 8 places after, such as 000151.460000000.

 

[ScannerDude244]

BEU started to narrowband today I only heard one repeater tone 4, but I guess they will work on the rest of them this week.

 

[fyrmedic33]

Kinda confused with the whole narrow banding going on with Cal Fire. Are the frequencies for the ranger units changing or just being modified to the 12.5 spec. For instance is TCU L going to remain the same frequency of 151.175 RX 159.450 TX or will the process change that number?

 

[Radio_Lady]

Kinda confused with the whole narrow banding going on with Cal Fire. Are the frequencies for the ranger units changing or just being modified to the 12.5 spec. For instance is TCU L going to remain the same frequency of 151.175 RX 159.450 TX or will the process change that number?

[size=+1]For the time being, at least, the CAL-FIRE ranger unit frequencies are not changing, but only going to narrow bandwidth. See posts #2 and #8 in this thread:[/size]

At the moment, the state is just taking the current channels and changing them to narrowband. Any new channels will follow once the fleet is modified before next fire season.

Yes, they are well into the process of narrowbanding the existing Local Dispatch and Command 1 and 2 frequencies. Same frequencies as before, but with narrow bandwidth.

.

 

[cousinkix1953]

Cal-Fire has been using the NB air tac 23 since 2008. (151.3025 mhz.) I heard it during those fires here on the coast just south of San Francisco...

 

[ScannerDude244]

Any update?Sounds like radio techs been reprogramming all the radios been hearing alot radio checks for the past few days now. It was also the first tine hearing a non DC tech he went by radio something with a number was going from site to site checking the generators fuel levels.

 

[Heidi750]

disregard ...
I answered my own question with some extra looking
OOOOPS!!!! bad on me

 

[avtarsingh]

it was probably one of the cal fire radio liaison guys .. just a guess

there are a few guys working for calfire that used to be radio techs and do liaison work to help overcome the massive shortcoming of the 50% or less staffed radio techs

with a hiring freeze in place too the system cant fix itself and wont keep running forever

 

[ScannerDude244]

Well sounds like BEU is cutting over today they already ran into problem tone 2 isn't taking the programing for NB. They are using a copter 553 to take them to sites.

 

[ScannerDude244]

Well sounds like BEU is cutting over today they already ran into problem tone 2 isn't taking the programing for NB. They are using a copter 553 to take them to sites.

EDIT: BEU is now Narrow Band!

 

[Duster]

This is the latest information I have for today:

The following units are confirmed narrowbanded:
MMU, SHU, TCU, BTU, NEU, SCU

According to the schedule, these units narrowbanded in November and December, but I haven't made phone calls to confirm:
SKU, TGU, TUU, North Ops, LMU, CZU

HUU is in progress now...one mountain done, rest in progress.

LNU pushed out to February.

AEU still waiting on a return call.

CALFIRE Database updated based upon the information in this thread.