Callsign requirement question

[katt02]

Hi all,

Just got my tech last night and I already have a question that was not completely covered in the book. When I am on air using a digital mode, i.e. P25, how do I say my callsign? Am I required to say my callsign in analog and then switch to p25 or can I just announce it in p25? This goes for all digital modes too, can I say my callsign in digital?


Thanks,

Katt

 

[buddrousa]

It is my understanding that you announce your callsign in the format you are using.

 

[k9wkj]

your call is built into whatever protocol your using
but giving your call as normal is IMO good practice
when we are running Fusion I see everyones call on the screen of the radio
but we all still announce our calls, as old habits hang and that will playout the same for any digital voice mode

 

[buddrousa]

k9wkj some could be using old Motorola DMR radios with no display so announce your call is a good option but yes my call is displayed on DMR when I am using it but I still announce it.

 

[AI7PM]

your call is built into whatever protocol your using
but giving your call as normal is IMO good practice
when we are running Fusion I see everyones call on the screen of the radio
but we all still announce our calls, as old habits hang and that will playout the same for any digital voice mode

This is incorrect. Only DSTAR and Fusion pass your callsign. An LID in EDACS or P25, and the user number in DMR and NXDN do not suffice as IDing per Part 97.

 

[k9wkj]

This is incorrect. Only DSTAR and Fusion pass your callsign. An LID in EDACS or P25, and the user number in DMR and NXDN do not suffice as IDing per Part 97.

well thats very good to know
I was mistakenly under the impression that call/ID would be in there
sort of like a SSID
now the learning begins

 

[deanq]

This is incorrect. Only DSTAR and Fusion pass your callsign. An LID in EDACS or P25, and the user number in DMR and NXDN do not suffice as IDing per Part 97.

Part 97 is quite outdated on this, but none the less is quite specific. Phone (in the operating mode), CW, RTTY data (type) in specified emissions types. No uhf/vhf digital emission modes are allowed (specified). So technicaly, you have to ID in digital just as you do for analog with all the uhf/vhf digital modes regardless if it transmits your callsign. JMHO

 

[AI7PM]

..... So technicaly, you have to ID in digital just as you do for analog with all the uhf/vhf digital modes regardless if it transmits your callsign. JMHO

Incorrect as well. 97.119 (3) ...."or data transmission" ,is what makes the DSTAR and Fusion transmission of the callsign legit as IDing. The other digital modes do not transmit the call sign, but transmit an identification number that may or may not be correlated to an FCC assigned call sign. FCC does not recognize you DMR, P25, or NXDN ID number as valid IDing.

 

[vagrant]

Additionally, here are some points to keep in mind in the "bigger picture" of things.
1. Some of our fellow operators are blind or have vision trouble and are unable to read a screen.
2. Some operators are not next to the radio to read the display.
3. Some are using devices that convey the audio in its digital form, but it does not ID the call sign if that is in the data stream.

I use C4FM (Fusion), DMR, D-Star and P25. I say my call sign while using whatever mode. I really find ID'ing helpful when listening to simplex conversations in whatever mode, and trying to determine their location and or who they are.

 

[deanq]

Incorrect as well. 97.119 (3) ...."or data transmission" ,is what makes the DSTAR and Fusion transmission of the callsign legit as IDing. The other digital modes do not transmit the call sign, but transmit an identification number that may or may not be correlated to an FCC assigned call sign. FCC does not recognize you DMR, P25, or NXDN ID number as valid IDing.

Don't just cherry pick the parts you want. Quote the whole thing. The "data transmission has to be one of several emissions types, of which Fusion and DSTAR are not listed. research the whole thing and then come back. The "data" emissions for #3 below are numerous, but all of the UHF/VHF digital modes are not listed.
The call sign must be transmitted with an emission authorized for the transmitting channel in one of the following ways:

(1) By a CW emission. When keyed by an automatic device used only for identification, the speed must not exceed 20 words per minute;

(2) By a phone emission in the English language. Use of a phonetic alphabet as an aid for correct station identification is encouraged;

(3) By a RTTY emission using a specified digital code when all or part of the communications are transmitted by a RTTY or data emission;

(4) By an image emission conforming to the applicable transmission standards, either color or monochrome, of § 73.682(a) of the FCC Rules when all or part of the communications are transmitted in the same image emission

I could be wrong, but that's how I see it. Maybe you can explain it differently.

 

[AK9R]

Many years ago, when D-STAR started gaining popularity, I thought the ARRL asked the FCC about ID requirements when using digital voice modes. My recollection is that the FCC said that IDing using the data embedded in the digital voice protocol was permitted, even if it wasn't specifically mentioned in the rules. I have been unable to find any online reference to that FCC decision, so it could be a figment of my imagination.

That said, D-STAR and Yaesu System Fusion, to the best of my knowledge, transmit the user's callsign in the data stream. Those digital voice protocols were designed for amateur radio. DMR, P25, NXDN were not designed for amateur radio. While those protocols do transmit an identifier, it is not an amateur radio callsign. Your DMR radio shows the callsigns of the people you are talking to because your radio was programmed with a look-up table that relates the other person's DMR ID to his/her callsign. In my opinion, a DMR ID does not, in any way, satisfy Part 97 station identification requirements.

 

[w2xq]

Geez. Isn't the solution, for whatever voice mode you use, as easy to just verbalize your call at least every 10 minutes? No big deal, no muss, no fuss, no worries. And the FCC will eventually figure out what it wants in its rules.

 

[N4GIX]

In addition to voice ID and on DMR in particular, PLEASE also specify the TG you are currently using. I'm not staring at my screen all the time, so when I hear W4XYZ calling, I have no idea whatever which TG s/he is on, so cannot answer.

 

[eaf1956]

This is incorrect. Only DSTAR and Fusion pass your callsign. An LID in EDACS or P25, and the user number in DMR and NXDN do not suffice as IDing per Part 97.

Fusion does if they bother to put their call sign into the radio.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

[vagrant]

Fusion does if they bother to put their call sign into the radio.

On the FT1XDR, FT2DR, and 400XDR one must enter in their call sign first before further use during initial setup. Other Yaesu C4FM radios may be that way as well, but I am not familiar with the others.

 

[eaf1956]

On the FT1XDR, FT2DR, and 400XDR one must enter in their call sign first before further use during initial setup. Other Yaesu C4FM radios may be that way as well, but I am not familiar with the others.

But you can type anything. It doesn't check to see if it is a valid Call

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

[vagrant]

But you can type anything. It doesn't check to see if it is a valid Call

You are correct. Operators can give an incorrect call sign verbally as well, valid or not. Amateur radio is not about being disingenuous. The point of certain Yaesu radios requiring the operators callsign is to assist them and others while they enjoy the hobby.

I believe we are drifting...

 

[DaveNF2G]

Incorrect as well. 97.119 (3) ...."or data transmission" ,is what makes the DSTAR and Fusion transmission of the callsign legit as IDing.

Umm, no. The "digital" formats under discussion here are phone. The regs require a voice ID in English. "Data transmission" refers to AX.25, RTTY, etc.

 

[Otto]

On the FT1XDR, FT2DR, and 400XDR one must enter in their call sign first before further use during initial setup. Other Yaesu C4FM radios may be that way as well, but I am not familiar with the others.

The FTM-100 is like this as well. But you can also remove it after you set up the radio.

 

[kv5e]

The FCC has granted several NPRM to permit digital emissions where either Block Information Words, or in the case of F7W and other emissions the station call sign to be embedded in the data control plane. Such is the case for DStar and Fusion C4FM where the call sign is transmitted in the control plane. The fact that thousands of digital repeaters operate in this mode seems to be implicit approval of this operation as no NOV or NAL has been handed down to US Amateurs. If a system operated in "mixed-mode" then a CW or voice ID seems prudent.

I wish the FCC ticketed repeaters that ID too often and are tantamount to broadcasters!!!!!!!

Craig