CB: Higher Power Radio or Amp?

[Diverdan86]

Good afternoon all!

Question: All thing being equal, and hypothetically of course; for general use CB (short range), longer distance communication (25+ miles) and 'skip', is a higher powered radio (export or mod) or a linear amplifier generally preferred? Or both? Again assuming the same mic, antenna, etc.

Thanks!

 

[mitbr]

Good afternoon all!

Question: All thing being equal, and hypothetically of course; for general use CB (short range), longer distance communication (25+ miles) and 'skip', is a higher powered radio (export or mod) or a linear amplifier generally preferred? Or both? Again assuming the same mic, antenna, etc.

Thanks!

My suggestion is to improve the antenna first!
Tim

 

[Diverdan86]

My suggestion is to improve the antenna first!
Tim

100% But if the antenna was already improved...then?

 

[mmckenna]

100% But if the antenna was already improved...then?

Throwing more power at every communications issue is a rookie mistake. Seriously, improve your antenna, then improve the receiver. If you still need more power, then you need something better than a CB that has been jacked with by some dingus with a golden screwdriver.

 

[Diverdan86]

Throwing more power at every communications issue is a rookie mistake. Seriously, improve your antenna, then improve the receiver. If you still need more power, then you need something better than a CB that has been jacked with by some dingus with a golden screwdriver.

Understood. Thanks!

 

[mmckenna]

Understood. Thanks!

By "dingus with a golden screwdriver", I mean the guys that "peak and tune" radios without really knowing what they are doing. It's easy to get in a radio with a wattmeter connected and start fiddling with things to make the needle move farther right. That might look good, but it usually results in a crappy radio that's just splattering more power, and not necessarily where you want it.

If you need 25 miles of range, there may be better radio services where you can easily get that without paying someone in the singlewide behind the truck stop to diddle with your radio. Other problem with CB is it becomes a pissing match with all the noise from other people. If you want reliable communications over 25 miles -reliably-, then ditch the CB and get something more appropriate.

If it was me trying to squeeze 25 miles out of a CB, 100% of the effort would go into the antenna. If that didn't get what I wanted, I may or may not try a decent amplifier with a preamplifier on the receive side. But simply increasing power doesn't necessarily mean you'll get an equal increase in range.

 

[slowmover]

Mobile or Base? The former needs help, the latter not so much.

My preference in mobile is a separate amp. Despite increased difficulty of installation, one can more easily change components. Not “trapped”.

The better question is AM-only, or AM-SSB, as the latter has more features and is generally more capable. (AM only with amp is sorta useless: ability is key).

RF power can be varied to suit. I use an LPF from the Amp, and a BPF from the TRX to Amp. Coax filters at far ends.

Clarity is what matters. A modern NRC radio gets thru the forest better than what came previously. The “crutch” of power (in a big truck) is thereby ameliorated.

A dual final radio in a passenger vehicle or on a base is overall sufficient. In which case a QT60 is ideal for either. Time and attention to the antenna system is what actually matters.

“If it was me trying to squeeze 25 miles out of a CB, 100% of the effort would go into the antenna. If that didn't get what I wanted, I may or may not try a decent amplifier with a preamplifier on the receive side. But simply increasing power doesn't necessarily mean you'll get an equal increase in range.”

Yes. The measure is that if I can hear them, they can hear me. Ears have precedence. It’s kinda stupid to TX farther than one can hear. I’ve made light fun of more than a few on AM-19. (Pre-amp not really a help in mobile).

One must work to overcome the deficiencies of the other mans system by making his own “ideal”. 90% of what’s to be heard is poor, thus you’ve your work cut out for you.

Clarity isn’t power so much as it’s intelligibity. At both ends.

Order this from Mike (with conversion and alignment ck) and the thread question is settled. DSP precedes power as a fundamental once AM/SSB is the minimum.

RADIODDITY QT60 10 METER RADIO. FM /AM /SSB with TX/RX NOISE REDUCTION | Scott's Radios

Stock optionRadios will ship in 10-Meter only.No video is supplied with the stock option. A short video will be supplied via YouTube when time allows when purchasing with Alignment option.As of 2/22/24 videos are not being offered due to them causing delays in processing orders.More info 👇See...

www.scottsradios.com

Get an antenna that’s above 5’. Mount vehicle center. You’re now top 2% after using antenna analyzer assuming the link below is understood.

Mobile Install Bible

And go to the Install subforum and read what the guru on that mountaintop has to say (@mmckenna).

.

 

[Diverdan86]

By "dingus with a golden screwdriver", I mean the guys that "peak and tune" radios without really knowing what they are doing. It's easy to get in a radio with a wattmeter connected and start fiddling with things to make the needle move farther right. That might look good, but it usually results in a crappy radio that's just splattering more power, and not necessarily where you want it.

If you need 25 miles of range, there may be better radio services where you can easily get that without paying someone in the singlewide behind the truck stop to diddle with your radio. Other problem with CB is it becomes a pissing match with all the noise from other people. If you want reliable communications over 25 miles -reliably-, then ditch the CB and get something more appropriate.

If it was me trying to squeeze 25 miles out of a CB, 100% of the effort would go into the antenna. If that didn't get what I wanted, I may or may not try a decent amplifier with a preamplifier on the receive side. But simply increasing power doesn't necessarily mean you'll get an equal increase in range.

Great explanation thank you. So it sounds like an export 10 m/11 m radio running 50 W combined with good coax and a quality, well placed antenna should be more than enough for everything including reliable skip. Do you happen to have a good 10/11 meter combo antenna you recommend? The other threads on that topic are all over the place.

 

[slowmover]

100% But if the antenna was already improved...then?

“Already improved”, (mobile) is cross-reference of every problem applicable with solution in The Bible.

Details are tedious. At first.
Success breeds more success.

.

 

[slowmover]

Great explanation thank you. So it sounds like an export 10 m/11 m radio running 50 W combined with good coax and a quality, well placed antenna should be more than enough for everything including reliable skip. Do you happen to have a good 10/11 meter combo antenna you recommend? The other threads on that topic are all over the place.

NMO34b + WD640 whip, permanent mount on roof center (research, has been discussed).

.

 

[Diverdan86]

Good afternoon all!

Question: All thing being equal, and hypothetically of course; for general use CB (short range), longer distance communication (25+ miles) and 'skip', is a higher powered radio (export or mod) or a linear amplifier generally preferred? Or both? Again assuming the same mic, antenna, etc.

Should have clarified both mobile and base, AM and SSB (I guess FM too now that it is an option) modes

 

[KevinC]

I thought CB was limited to 4w AM and 12w SSB? Or has that changed?

 

[Diverdan86]

Mobile or Base? The former needs help, the latter not so much.

My preference in mobile is a separate amp. Despite increased difficulty of installation, one can more easily change components. Not “trapped”.

The better question is AM-only, or AM-SSB, as the latter has more features and is generally more capable. (AM only with amp is sorta useless: ability is key).

RF power can be varied to suit. I use an LPF from the Amp, and a BPF from the TRX to Amp. Coax filters at far ends.

Clarity is what matters. A modern NRC radio gets thru the forest better than what came previously. The “crutch” of power (in a big truck) is thereby ameliorated.

A dual final radio in a passenger vehicle or on a base is overall sufficient. In which case a QT60 is ideal for either. Time and attention to the antenna system is what actually matters.

“If it was me trying to squeeze 25 miles out of a CB, 100% of the effort would go into the antenna. If that didn't get what I wanted, I may or may not try a decent amplifier with a preamplifier on the receive side. But simply increasing power doesn't necessarily mean you'll get an equal increase in range.”

Yes. The measure is that if I can hear them, they can hear me. Ears have precedence. It’s kinda stupid to TX farther than one can hear. I’ve made light fun of more than a few on AM-19. (Pre-amp not really a help in mobile).

One must work to overcome the deficiencies of the other mans system by making his own “ideal”. 90% of what’s to be heard is poor, thus you’ve your work cut out for you.

Clarity isn’t power so much as it’s intelligibity. At both ends.

Order this from Mike (with conversion and alignment ck) and the thread question is settled. DSP precedes power as a fundamental once AM/SSB is the minimum.

RADIODDITY QT60 10 METER RADIO. FM /AM /SSB with TX/RX NOISE REDUCTION | Scott's Radios

Stock optionRadios will ship in 10-Meter only.No video is supplied with the stock option. A short video will be supplied via YouTube when time allows when purchasing with Alignment option.As of 2/22/24 videos are not being offered due to them causing delays in processing orders.More info 👇See...

www.scottsradios.com

Get an antenna that’s above 5’. Mount vehicle center. You’re now top 2% after using antenna analyzer assuming the link below is understood.

Mobile Install Bible

And go to the Install subforum and read what the guru on that mountaintop has to say (@mmckenna).

.

Wonderful information and very thorough. Thank you!

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

NMO34b + WD640 whip, permanent mount on roof center (research, has been discussed).

.

I can't find the research. Inquiring minds want to know about this combo. Performance? Bandwidth??

 

[AB5ID]

I thought CB was limited to 4w AM and 12w SSB? Or has that changed?

Only about 50 years ago

 

[mmckenna]

I thought CB was limited to 4w AM and 12w SSB? Or has that changed?

Only for people with integrity. For the rest, rules are something that only apply to everyone else.

 

[mmckenna]

I can't find the research. Inquiring minds want to know about this combo. Performance? Bandwidth??

More whip, less coil. I think it's a performance thing. Would love to see one on an analyzer.

 

[merlin]

Great explanation thank you. So it sounds like an export 10 m/11 m radio running 50 W combined with good coax and a quality, well placed antenna should be more than enough for everything including reliable skip. Do you happen to have a good 10/11 meter combo antenna you recommend? The other threads on that topic are all over the place.

For base, my antennas of choice are HiGain's SuperMagnum ground plane and their 5 element long boom on a HAM-M rotator.
Get them up in the air a bit,like above utility poles.
For mobile, hands down the best I ever came across is the Wilson 1000-M on mag mount. it can even do the low half of 10 meters with a shorter rod.
No,, you don't even need 50 watts to talk over most of north America and a few countries. I do it with 10 watt AM/25 watt PEP SSB.
An old school thing is your antenna system makes or breaks the best radios on the planet.
If you Just MUST run power, do it right. Invest in a Harris HFL-1000. No mic preamps, tweety birds, echo/reverb, just a good mic.

 

[Diverdan86]

For base, my antennas of choice are HiGain's SuperMagnum ground plane and their 5 element long boom on a HAM-M rotator.
Get them up in the air a bit,like above utility poles.
For mobile, hands down the best I ever came across is the Wilson 1000-M on mag mount. it can even do the low half of 10 meters with a shorter rod.
No,, you don't even need 50 watts to talk over most of north America and a few countries. I do it with 10 watt AM/25 watt PEP SSB.
An old school thing is your antenna system makes or breaks the best radios on the planet.
If you Just MUST run power, do it right. Invest in a Harris HFL-1000. No mic preamps, tweety birds, echo/reverb, just a good mic.

Thank you sir!

 

[KD8DVR]

Good afternoon all!

Question: All thing being equal, and hypothetically of course; for general use CB (short range), longer distance communication (25+ miles) and 'skip', is a higher powered radio (export or mod) or a linear amplifier generally preferred? Or both? Again assuming the same mic, antenna, etc.

Thanks!

A better antenna is what you want. Don't become a "Bleedover Bastard Linear Jockey"