City of Signal Hill TRS

[LAflyer]

Hello guys,

Wondering if anyone within listening range or knowledge of the system can chime in.

Have received a couple comments that the DB information for this TRS is no longer valid.
Signal Hill, City of (Police & Municipal Services) Trunking System, Signal Hill, California - Scanner Frequencies

More specifically I’m told 2 of the 5 listed frequencies are likely not valid, not being licensed. (868.6125 & 868.9375).
Looking through FCC licenses I’ve come up with 2 other 800 frequencies which are licensed to the City of Signal Hill – 853.6125 & 853.9375. Should these be part of the TRS?

Additionally a comment was made that Downey no longer uses the system, having left way back in 2008/2009. Any confirmations of this? If so any idea what Downey Public Works is doing now? I note Downey holds several licenses which we don't have in our DB.

 

[scottbailey]

I don't listen to the system regularly, but I did come across a document a while back regarding Downey Public Works leaving the system since their radios would be incompatible with the changes (rebanding?) coming soon to the Signal Hill system.

They intended to move to Henry Radio's UHF LTR system using Kenwood radios. I couldn't find the matching City Council minutes to verify that they approved the decision or not.

http://www.downeyca.org/_blobcache/0000/0002/2282.pdf

 

[scottbailey]

A quick look at Trunk88 and Unitrunker is showing the following:
853.6125 [One of the new ones you mentioned]
856.2875 C
857.2875 BC
858.2875

Additionally, Trunk88 (but not Unitrunker) is showing:
856.2125
859.9625
860.2125
860.4625

I don't think the Trunk88 frequencies are right, but I'm not sure where they came from. There is so little activity on this system that it's hard to get anything definitive from a quick look.

 

[LAflyer]

Hey thanks. I guess its true that Downey is no longer on the system.

I suppose best time to try to Unitrunker might be Mon-Fri day times when folks like Public Works might be on also.

All four of those frequencies you mentioned 856.2125 / 859.9625 / 860.2125 / 860.4625 belong to Orange County CCCS system. Odd they would show on Signal Hill.

Appreciate the frequency fishing, and input from anyone else that might have further.

 

[monitor142]

I seem to recall that a few years back that the Signal Hill 800 trunker was completely overhauled by Advanced Electronics with all new equipment. At the same time they did change frequencies under an unusual circumstance due to interference and they are the only system that I'm aware of that did rebanding in our Wave 4 area along with cooperation from Sprint (Nextel) for new freq allocations. The trunker dump probably is off unless you have a rebanding band plan built for the new logical channel numbering. This was highlighted by the Downey pdf that was linked showing that the vast majority of their Public Works radios are not compatible with the new system. If they were running Maxtracs, Spectras, and MTX radios, those need to be replaced as they are not flash upgradeable to the rebanded plan.

I do not listen to them myself but this is tid bits of info I heard from a few radio sources.

-M142

 

[patin]

signal hill pd

i listen to them and this is what i use to hear them 857.2875,,858.2875,,,dispatch 40976,,,ch 2 40992,,,,tac-1 41008,,,,,tac -5 41024

 

[LAflyer]

So it seems

Thanks all for the continued feedback.

So.. it seems we have 4 of 5 frequencies confirmed
853.6125 - new
856.2875
857.2875
858.2875

Still need confirmation on - 853.9375

Downey has moved onto other pastures with LTR subscription. (now that becomes another project to hunt down)

i listen to them and this is what i use to hear them 857.2875,,858.2875,,,dispatch 40976,,,ch 2 40992,,,,tac-1 41008,,,,,tac -5 41024

Thank you for 41008 which was not in the DB.

I guess there must be some other TGID to make up Tac-2,3,4?

Also any clue if TG 45072 which in Db shows as Public Works is still good?, plus any other wildcards on the system?


Thanks again, and glad we can use teamwork to get the Db cleaned up.

 

[scottbailey]

Thank you for 41008 which was not in the DB.

I guess there must be some other TGID to make up Tac-2,3,4?

Also any clue if TG 45072 which in Db shows as Public Works is still good?, plus any other wildcards on the system?

According to Unitrunker, I show one hit to 45072 on 2/18/11 - but again, that was probably just in passing by. Presumably, that is Signal Hill's PW, not Downey, so it is probably still valid.

I'm not seeing any candidates for Tac 2/3/4 in my couple days of logging. The CW identifier (which typically shows up on all Motorola systems as tg 65536) is the #2 most active talkgroup on the system...I do have two hits to 57600 on 4/5 from a single RID not near the range of the PD users, which could very well have been an error during a low signal or something.

I just came across confirmation that the city approved the request that I posted earlier.
From The Downey Patriot - City invests in traffic management:

In other action, the Council:
...
Authorized the unscheduled equipment replacement of the Public
Works Department radio communication system, caused by the impending
incompatibility with the new Signal Hill trunking system when this
becomes operational in late September (the city of Downey has leased
radio repeater service from the city of Signal Hill on a Motorola radio
trunking system since 1989); because of cost considerations and other positive
factors, Downey has opted for a tested Kenwood system (which
Santa Fe Springs also uses), in the process picking up an interoperability
feature that will allow DPW to communicate directly with Downey Police
and Fire, a feature lacking in the old system, and deemed necessary in
times of emergency; this entails an appropriation of $30,800 from the
Water Fund and $15,800 from the General Fund;

I'm still trying to figure out how the UHF-T band radios give them interoperability with Downey Police and Fire on VHF...I don't see Downey listed as a subscriber on ICIS - so do they have a patch available for interoperability with the rest of LA county law enforcement, have VHF + UHF in the cars, or what?

Also of note is that the original Downey PDF doc says that "Santa Fe Springs Police Services" were also a subscriber on the Signal Hill system - but they are listed in the RR DB as using Whittier PD. Maybe no longer the case? From the sounds of the document, they were leaning towards using the Henry Radio LTR system too.

This was highlighted by the Downey pdf that was linked showing that the vast majority of their Public Works radios are not compatible with the new system. If they were running Maxtracs, Spectras, and MTX radios, those need to be replaced as they are not flash upgradeable to the rebanded plan.

True they're not rebandable, but the whole deal with rebanding is that Sprint/NexTel is picking up the complete cost of firmware upgrading rebandable models and, in the case of non-rebandable units like Maxtrac/Spectra/MTX - outright replacement. Why didn't that apply here?

Or heck, if someone wanted to get creative, the system only had 1 or 2 channels out of 4 or 5 that needed rebanding - they probably could have just configured the Downey talkgroups to stay on the 2 or 3 non-rebanded voice channels and prioritize the PD channels to use the rebanded channels first. IIRC the Motorola trunking controllers allow talkgroups to be restricted from specific channels as well as prioritized to use certain channels first. I was about to admit that 1989-era equipment might not have that capability - but then again they're not running 1989-era equipment any more if they've already rebanded.

 

[LAflyer]

Thanks everyone for the input. I'll update the Db this weekend.

I guess with its being a rather quiet system to begin with its not the easiest work out.

If anyone in the future comes up with added TGs or confirmation of the remaining new frequency - 853.9375 if they can submit to the Db that be great.

Also if anyone runs across Downey Public Works on one of the Natl Science & Technology LTR systems, kindly submit that info as well.

Thanks all !

 

[2wayfreq]

I wonder if they will jump on the LA-RICS bandwagon?

 

[LAflyer]

Hello Gents,

Bringing back this older thread.

Had a submission from member that believes the only current and active frequencies for this system are:
856.2875
857.2875
858.2875

If anyone within reception range could put a trunk tracker on the system maybe can verify this and I'll update the Db accordingly.

I do wonder also if they have ever updated things and moved away from being MOT-II Hybrid system requiring custom trunking tables or fleet map.

 

[LAflyer]

Back again with this thread.

Update to Reply 7, we now have confirmation 853.9375 is also part of the TRS also.

So the 5 frequencies are:
853.6125
853.9375
856.2875
857.2875
858.2875

Db has been updated.

Also received note that TG #45072 which is shown as public works is likely something else. Apparently law enforcement, or possibly park ranger like comms were noted on the TG.

 

[helispot]

What are the conventional freqs listed as Signal Hills PD then in the L.A. County listings? Curious.

 

[markclark]

Here are my observations regarding the SHPD trunking system. Signal Hill has five frequencies licensed. Two of those frequencies, (853 Mhz) never have any traffic except for automated station identifiers. The signals on those frequencies are much weaker than the frequencies in the 856-857 band. From the sound of the signal strength, the transmitter may be on city hall or the public works building.

On the 856-857 band the control channel no longer rotates. Thus, there are actually three active frequencies used for SHPD on that system- one control channel and two voice trunking channels. I should mention that all frequencies were used until a year or two ago, maybe somewhat longer.

I've never heard any traffic on the VHF channels. My location is about a mile, and line of sight, from the Signal Hill radio site, and I have a rooftop antenna. It seems strange the city would configure the system in that manner, but I'm sure they have their reasons. I hope this clarifies any (some) questions about this system.

 

[LAflyer]

Thanks for those observations.

For fun I let UniTrunker run on the control frequency and after about 3 hours it shows the TRS having 4 frequencies.
Unfortunately Motorola type II hybrid system does not provide the frequency info except listing LCN orders of 104, 117, 211 and 291.
Will need to actually listen to the system to determine which 4 of the 5 are part of TRS, though I do know control frequency 856.2875 is LCN 211.

I also noted a new TG being used that is not in the Db - 65336. Anyone have a clue who that user is?

 

[AA6IO]

I have Signal Hill TRS on one of my FLs on the 436HP/536HP. Never paid much attention to the TGs, but I hear some stuff here in Cerritos. Just saw this thread, so turned my 536HP on and monitoring here now at 3:30 AM. CC is 856.2875. Several hits for TG 40976 Patrol Dispatch with several different UIDs in last couple of minutes on VC 858.2875. Am monitoring now with ARC536HP virtual control and will leave on during the day to see what pops up.
Steve AA6IO

 

[LAflyer]

Been monitoring the rather quiet system.

The 853.xxxx frequencies are definitely in use. Heard voice traffic on 853.6125/9375 this morning.

In working out the UniTrunker logs have determined the following line up of frequencies.

LCN104 = 853.6125
LCN117 = 853.9375
LCN211 = 856.2875 - CC
LCN291 = 858.2875

Have not noted activity on 857.2875 so far.

Also no ID on the new TG 65336 user yet.

 

[markclark]

LA flyer:

I haven't recently heard any traffic on 857.2875 either. I've monitored SHPD both as a trunked system and conventionally scanning all the licensed frequencies.

 

[markclark]

I just noticed the control channel has now changed to 858.2875. That hasn't happened in some time.

 

[AA6IO]

Ran 536HP with ARC536PRO logging for about 8 hours on Signal Hill TRS. RSSIs all high 300s to
Only 3 different TGs: 40976 106 hits; 40992 6 hits; and 41024 21 hits.
Only VCs shown are 853.6125 and 858.2875. Mark reported CC changed to 858.2875. I was not here during most of day, so I don't know, but when returned home at 4:30 PM as I write this post, I still see
856.2875 as the CC. BTW: Ran in search mode: No other TGs seen here.

Steve AA6IO