Cowlitz County - Longview

[Omega-TI]

I was talking with a woman in line at the store the other day who works at the communications center and she mentioned that they are thinking about going to P25 in the 700 Mhz range. I didn't ask her if it was going to be encrypted or not since she said she's not a dispatcher and I figured she probably didn't know anyway since they are just apparently in the talking stages. However the good old day *MIGHT* come to an end here in Longview and greater Cowlitz County. Anyway it's something to keep in mind when purchasing your next scanner.

 

[Baker845]

Just to add , LE on new system's are 98.9% of the time are going to go encrypted. Its sad to say this, i been scanning for over 20 years and it just how higher ups want it now a days.

 

[gmclam]

I see some of their channels are on the Clark county P25 system. Seems like a direction for them to take and add all Cowlitz county channels and extend the Clark county system fully into two counties.

 

[3King]

I was talking with a woman in line at the store the other day who works at the communications center and she mentioned that they are thinking about going to P25 in the 700 Mhz range. I didn't ask her if it was going to be encrypted or not since she said she's not a dispatcher and I figured she probably didn't know anyway since they are just apparently in the talking stages. However the good old day *MIGHT* come to an end here in Longview and greater Cowlitz County. Anyway it's something to keep in mind when purchasing your next scanner.

I can tell you right now, With being in the radio field myself, And knowing the local techs in Cowlitz County, ENC for Cowlitz is not happening, Far too spendy for them to implement that kind of system, The only reason many areas across the country have implemented ENC is, Because they can afford it with ease and it wont even scratch their funds for other issues. Cowlitz on the other hand, No, It would be a grave mistake and they know it.

As for a fully implemented P25 system, It is going to require new sites being built as they cannot implement with the current sites except for Rainier Hill and Signal Peak, which are digital sites.

Cowlitz, When a P25 system is implemented, It is going to be a simulcast system, They will still keep their current analog system for safety purposes of if they go to a call in a certain area where digital here may not work that great and theyd have the option to use an analog channel.

 

[Wilrobnson]

You mentioned being "in the radio field" and these "costs" of encryption yet you failed to mention how more than one radio manufacturer includes encryption for free with purchase now. I've seen both Motorola and L3/Harris do it, more than a few times.

ETA- I'm speaking mostly of ADP/40-bit encryption, though L3/Harris gave my old agency AES free in our radios. It was not a large purchase either, IIRC we bought 85 of them.

 

[3King]

You mentioned being "in the radio field" and these "costs" of encryption yet you failed to mention how more than one radio manufacturer includes encryption for free with purchase now. I've seen both Motorola and L3/Harris do it, more than a few times.

I am aware that Motorola and L3/Harris have done that. However, It is all based on the system type that they will actually include that option. It is not just any ol random radio or system that it will come with.

And like i said, Cowlitz is not doing ENC with any radios or system they implement, It will not work reliably around cowlitz county, And the techs have already made the local agencies aware of that, Which is why they already have some implemented digital tac channels that are simulcast, They also know that those types of channels cannot be broadcast on any scanner app, which is very popular around cowlitz county. and there isnt anyone around cowlitz who knows how to program a simulcast channel, and i am saying that because i am a small business owners that works in the field alot and im always getting people asking me, How do i program a digital simulcast radio channel? And some of those people when they ask me, they end up showing me a radio that is not capable of monitoring simulcast.

 

[Wilrobnson]

I'm uncertain why you think encrypted channels will not work reliably around the County, and also unsure why you stated "digital tac channels....cannot be broadcast on any scanner app".

 

[3King]

I'm uncertain why you think encrypted channels will not work reliably around the County, and also unsure why you stated "digital tac channels....cannot be broadcast on any scanner app".

First of all, Digital encryption overloads a digital radio system, Ask Clark county LE about that, Because now theyre stuck in it and they cannot even afford to get out of their stupid mistake. They have had numerous radio system crashes due to that issue, yes i have personally inside sources. And with around cowlitz county, Digital Encrypted channels will not work reliably around cowlitz due to our terrains, It would be like the sheriffs department taking their dispatch channel switching it to digital encryption and due to the hilly terrain around cowlitz dispatch can only talk to a deputy 1-2 miles away as opposed to 10-12 nautical miles away. right now, they have a couple digital tac channels, my cousin is a officer for cowlitz, One of their digital tac channels only reaches about 1 mile, maybe 1.5. it is a short range line of sight channel. They tried to use that same channel for a SAR mission up at Mt St Helens a couple months ago, two deputys were may be 1/4 mile from each other, they couldn't even communicate on that channel, They then had to switch to State SAR Tac 1, which i ended up hearing from my house, which is about 35-40 nautical miles away. Even the sheriffs office Car To Car channel has a 1 mile line of sight range, and it is analog.

As for "digital tac channels" being broadcast on a scanner app. It goes for analog as well, They cannot be legally broadcast on any scanner app per FCC regulations, if you do, they will shut the feed down. i know a couple of people who lost their feeds due to that and they lost their privilege of having one again.

 

[Wilrobnson]

Sorry it's taken me so long to reply to this, work and all that jazz.

That being said, I've never read more *fail* from someone who claims to be "in the radio field".

Encryption does not "overload a digital radio system". The system does not care about an additional or changed bit in the data stream. If it did then no current systems would handle encryption and they would indeed be untenable.

You then go on to relate several anecdotes with the sources cited as the equivalent of "trust me bro", with the examples sounding more like poor programming, operator error or just plain falsehoods.

You finished by stating the FCC has shut scanner feeds down for rebroadcasting "tac channels", causing the feed providers to lose their privileges.

Really? Cite a single 47 CFR FCC regulation that covers this, and further enables them to do what you stated. I'll wait. In the meantime, feel free to search around for feeds providing tac channel traffic. I'm listening to one at this moment.

If you are truly "in the radio field", I cannot imagine the unadulterated BS you must spew at customers. With this attitude you should not be allowed near a toaster, let alone any actual technology. I believe your entire topic would meet some sort of guidelines for misinformation if one does indeed exist.

 

[3King]

Sorry it's taken me so long to reply to this, work and all that jazz.

That being said, I've never read more *fail* from someone who claims to be "in the radio field".

Encryption does not "overload a digital radio system". The system does not care about an additional or changed bit in the data stream. If it did then no current systems would handle encryption and they would indeed be untenable.

You then go on to relate several anecdotes with the sources cited as the equivalent of "trust me bro", with the examples sounding more like poor programming, operator error or just plain falsehoods.

You finished by stating the FCC has shut scanner feeds down for rebroadcasting "tac channels", causing the feed providers to lose their privileges.

Really? Cite a single 47 CFR FCC regulation that covers this, and further enables them to do what you stated. I'll wait. In the meantime, feel free to search around for feeds providing tac channel traffic. I'm listening to one at this moment.

If you are truly "in the radio field", I cannot imagine the unadulterated BS you must spew at customers. With this attitude you should not be allowed near a toaster, let alone any actual technology. I believe your entire topic would meet some sort of guidelines for misinformation if one does indee

Sorry it's taken me so long to reply to this, work and all that jazz.

That being said, I've never read more *fail* from someone who claims to be "in the radio field".

Encryption does not "overload a digital radio system". The system does not care about an additional or changed bit in the data stream. If it did then no current systems would handle encryption and they would indeed be untenable.

You then go on to relate several anecdotes with the sources cited as the equivalent of "trust me bro", with the examples sounding more like poor programming, operator error or just plain falsehoods.

You finished by stating the FCC has shut scanner feeds down for rebroadcasting "tac channels", causing the feed providers to lose their privileges.

Really? Cite a single 47 CFR FCC regulation that covers this, and further enables them to do what you stated. I'll wait. In the meantime, feel free to search around for feeds providing tac channel traffic. I'm listening to one at this moment.

If you are truly "in the radio field", I cannot imagine the unadulterated BS you must spew at customers. With this attitude you should not be allowed near a toaster, let alone any actual technology. I believe your entire topic would meet some sort of guidelines for misinformation if one does indeed exist.

Ive been doing radio work for years, A friend of mine also does all the patrol vehicle computer work for our County Sheriffs Department & City PDs, every radio system type you can imagine, Even with this new age radio equipment that some people who claim to know all about it and actually dont know.

who ever said i had an "attitude"? you are the one making false comment there, I have no attitude, And with your assumption of me having an "attitude" tells me that you're one of those people who believes they can tell tone through internet chatter.

I was being completely civil, But now you are making me not want to give you a rebuttal with the rest and make you sit and wonder 🤷‍♂️. I am giving you this rebuttal so you dont sit there and think i am ignoring you.

 

[icom1020]

Works in Mason County, evidently

 

[3King]

Works in Mason County, evidently

No, Not associated with Mason County, Mason County has been dealing with issues with their NXDn 4800 system. And those issues, drumroll please...........Blanket encryption in an area not meant for that type of system.

 

[icom1020]

I don't see public safety unions in Clark county filing grievances or law suits that are known to the public, based on issues related to P25 and enc.

 

[icom1020]

And to hopefully end more speculation, someone standing in line heard a communications operator make a statement that something is in the works. Not to be dismissive of the OP, but unless you attend a public meeting of that 911 commission and or public meetings or you see a public document stating that they will go to this new system or desiring to go to new system, it's all conjecture at this point.

 

[im800mhz]

Didn't they just retain a consultant? I swear I remember one of our recent bidders cited them as a reference.

 

[superfreak]

Ive been doing radio work for years, A friend of mine also does all the patrol vehicle computer work for our County Sheriffs Department & City PDs, every radio system type you can imagine, Even with this new age radio equipment that some people who claim to know all about it and actually dont know.

who ever said i had an "attitude"? you are the one making false comment there, I have no attitude, And with your assumption of me having an "attitude" tells me that you're one of those people who believes they can tell tone through internet chatter.

I was being completely civil, But now you are making me not want to give you a rebuttal with the rest and make you sit and wonder 🤷‍♂️. I am giving you this rebuttal so you dont sit there and think i am ignoring you.

I do know all this "new age radio equipment" and I do know that you don't know what you are talking about or your friend is misinformed.... Encryption adds ZERO load to the system. It doesn't add any 0s or 1s... it is just different 0s and 1s in a digital system with encryption. The encryption/decryption is done at the device end. It does create a bit more work/effort/organization to set it up.. and some hardware/software.. But its a small small portion of the effort when going P25... and encryption is part of the P25 standard, including OTAR.

I am on my 3rd multi site with simulcast P25 system project (200+ sites, 6 zones, 50+sites, 1 zone, 20+ sites 1 zone, 100s of consoles, 10s of thousands of subscribers).. I started at the bottom digging ditches for propane lines for mountain top generators and now manage a system. I have installed 1000s of radios, created 100s of codeplugs and have programmed 10s of thousands of radios.

 

[devicelab]

Umm.. I hope you guys know that you're affecting my tin-foil hat and jockstrap sales. A bill will be sent forthwith. 🤣

 

[Wilrobnson]

Ive been doing radio work for years, A friend of mine also does all the patrol vehicle computer work for our County Sheriffs Department & City PDs, every radio system type you can imagine, Even with this new age radio equipment that some people who claim to know all about it and actually dont know.

who ever said i had an "attitude"? you are the one making false comment there, I have no attitude, And with your assumption of me having an "attitude" tells me that you're one of those people who believes they can tell tone through internet chatter.

I was being completely civil, But now you are making me not want to give you a rebuttal with the rest and make you sit and wonder 🤷‍♂️. I am giving you this rebuttal so you dont sit there and think i am ignoring you.

What in the ad hominem responses? THAT was your takeaway?

 

[bears223]

hey guys stop arguing about this getting out of hand

maybe 3king is right about this okay

 

[im800mhz]

@superfreak is my hero