Depreciating analog freqs

[west-pac]

In Indiana the majority of counties are using some type of digital radio system. The Hoosier SAFE-T statewide radio system has been around for over 20 years. However, most of those counties still have a collection of analog frequencies on their RRDB county homepage. While those multi-frequency licenses may keep getting renewed, because they may include a fire dispatch channel that is still in use, the majority of the frequencies on those licenses are still listed on the counties DB homepages, but are no longer in use because the local radio systems have evolved or been moved to a digital radio system.

Herein lies my concern, I haven't attempted to depreciate large swathes of analog frequencies yet, but I feel like depreciating a large amount of a county's homepage is a task that RRDB Admins will hesitate to do because those licenses are still valid.

On the flip side of that coin though, DB Admins are not supposed to add newly FCC granted licenses/frequencies to the DB unless they are known to be in use, have been monitored, and know Who and What the channel is for. In both of these cases; the new, and the out-dated frequencies, the licenses are valid, but the frequencies are not being used.

Are my concerns valid? Have others ran into push-back when trying to get rid of large amounts of cluttered, out-dated information in the DB? Comments/concerns from DB Admins?

 

[belvdr]

I know nothing about the data behind the RR database, but I would hope that if a frequency is confirmed to no longer be used, they can mark it inactive, even if it is just the description, rather than delete the data.

 

[W1KNE]

So as an admin, here is my rule. If the radio equipment is still physically installed, the listing stays active. I can't begin to tell you how many times I've seen an old radio channel, dormant for YEARS, all of a sudden pop up with a new user on it. "Hey does the city sidewalk planners have radios?, let's give them the old DPW radios". That sort of thing. Confirm the equipment is gone, unplugged and/or permanently out of service, then remove it. Also we've now had a few times where a department went to a statewide or digital system, and some eager beaver submits the old frequency is deprecated, the admin deletes it, only to find out, it's still very much active as a simulcast. Missouri State Police come to mind on that. All the Low Band frequencies were deleted from the DB, despite the fact they're still used. (And yes, they've been put back into the DB)

 

[belvdr]

So as an admin, here is my rule. If the radio equipment is still physically installed, the listing stays active. I can't begin to tell you how many times I've seen an old radio channel, dormant for YEARS, all of a sudden pop up with a new user on it. "Hey does the city sidewalk planners have radios?, let's give them the old DPW radios". That sort of thing. Confirm the equipment is gone, unplugged and/or permanently out of service, then remove it. Also we've now had a few times where a department went to a statewide or digital system, and some eager beaver submits the old frequency is deprecated, the admin deletes it, only to find out, it's still very much active as a simulcast. Missouri State Police come to mind on that. All the Low Band frequencies were deleted from the DB, despite the fact they're still used. (And yes, they've been put back into the DB)

On that note, are they deleted or just hidden from view so easily restored?

 

[racefan0020]

To echo what W1KNE said, here in my area the local counties used to dispatch on 33.90. Once they all went P25, some stations still kept up their licenses to use 33.90 as a backup to the system or for inter and intra station comms. I may go months without hearing anything and then 1 day, I will hear them training or getting ready for some function. Some of the other low band frequencies that we used to use are listed in the DB, some aren't. Bottom line, just because we don't always hear something on a given frequency, doesn't mean that is not used.

 

[12dbsinad]

Not sure about Indiana, but many locations keep their "old stuff" because many times the fancy new stuff is over sold. The number of old radio systems including low band still in place and maintained is astonishing around the Country. It's like buying a new fire truck, but you need to keep the old one because it ALWAYS works when you need it. I don't get it, but that's the new age and maybe I'm old school. So, caution needs to be used before one starts deleting frequencies that they 'think' have no use.

 

[GTR8000]

I know nothing about the data behind the RR database, but I would hope that if a frequency is confirmed to no longer be used, they can mark it inactive, even if it is just the description, rather than delete the data.

On that note, are they deleted or just hidden from view so easily restored?

There is no "inactive" flag for database entries. If a frequency or talkgroup is outright deleted, it is gone forever. If a frequency or talkgroup is marked as Deprecated (not Depreciated), it will get deleted automatically after 30 days.

As Lindsay has said in the past (paraphrasing)...the RadioReference database is not a museum, it is for cataloging resources that are still viable.

If something is truly dead and gone, submit an update to have it removed. Most admins these days will (should) flag those entries as deprecated so that they light up green and everyone concerned has 30 days to protest their removal if they have evidence that they're still viable.

If you're not 100% certain whether or not an agency has kept old frequencies around for backup purposes, leave them be. It's easier to lock stuff out that you don't care about vs the admins having to re-add stuff that is still kicking around, even if usage is extremely sporadic.

Just because counties/agencies move to fancy new trunked systems doesn't automatically mean that they've uninstalled and tossed all of their old analog radios in a dumpster. Yes, a fair percentage do just that, but not all, especially if there are wide area regional/state interop frequencies that are still on those bands (e.g. ABC County goes to 800 MHz, but maintains VHF radios for the statewide interop channels).

Bottom line: Don't be overzealous when it comes to having entries removed from the database

 

[mciupa]

If you are concerned about deprecated entries disappearing, perhaps create a Wiki entry like I did for historical purposes:

Toronto County (ON) - The RadioReference Wiki

wiki.radioreference.com

The great thing is any member can create these type of pages. Do it!